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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 October 2025
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Displaying 3424 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I am not really questioning whether it is legal; I am questioning the ethics of it.

I will move on. The other thing that has happened, subsequent to your decision to invest in it, is that the Gresham House Forestry Fund has been taken over by a New York-based private equity fund. You mentioned the covenants that you take out with investees to ensure that they retain their headquarters here. Gresham House was never headquartered here. It was previously headquartered in London, and it is now headquartered in New York. Ardersier port, which is another one of your maximum investments, is owned by an organisation that is headquartered in Houston, Texas. Are those matters any consideration of yours at all?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Jamie Greene has a question about Circularity Scotland before we move on.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, but is it appropriate—perhaps this is for you, Mr Watt—that public money is being invested in a venture that involves a partner whose principal purpose is to show people ways that they can avoid inheritance tax, corporation tax and capital gains tax and avoid paying into the public purse? Is there not any ethical consideration around such a decision?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

During the course of this morning’s meeting, we will probe those areas a little bit more. The environment in which you operate is one of the issues that is highlighted in the Audit Scotland report; it is certainly something that members of the committee want to ask the two of you about.

I invite Graham Simpson to open this morning’s questioning.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Funnily enough, the deputy convener has some questions in this area, too, as well as some others. Over to you, Jamie.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

That is fine. If you have the opportunity to put something in writing to reflect any research that you have done in that area, that would be helpful for the committee.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I will turn to the other end of the scale and ask about one of your below-threshold investments, which was in a construction company that is building houses in Shetland for key workers, to try to address the housing shortage. The report about that enterprise mentions that it is in the process of converting to be—it may already now be—employee owned. On the point about ownership structure, what the company looks like, its governance and so on, was that a positive additional reason for making the investment?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Is it fair for me to take from those answers that the employee ownership element did not play much of a part in the decision to invest?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Excellent. That is a very positive point.

I have one other question, and a couple of other members have quick final questions. My question goes back to the Audit Scotland report and its recommendation—which Mr Watt referred to at the very beginning of the meeting—that the bank should

“set out more clearly how it reaches specific investment decisions and the factors that have influenced its choice of investment.”

You have rehearsed that issue extensively during the course of this morning, not least in the answer that you have just given. How do you plan to go about doing that? How do you plan to be a bit more transparent than you have been?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

That is great. Graham Simpson has a quick final question.