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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 May 2025
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Displaying 3042 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

The 2030 emissions reduction target has been dropped altogether, has it not?

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

You said earlier that your assessment was that we are moving away from, rather than closer to, that target.

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

As we mentioned at the session’s start, you sum it up in the report, which says that it is

“impossible to understand which interventions will have the most impact on the target or deliver the best value for money.”

Until we establish that, it seems to me that it is difficult to answer the questions that the deputy convener has been putting, because you are identifying a shortage of data, an absence of meaningful evaluations and things that are not being seen through the prism of meeting the target.

I will move on now. I invite Stuart McMillan to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

In the report, you say that it is

“not possible to see how the national target of 20 per cent will be achieved”,

but you also say that it is

“impossible to understand which interventions will have the most impact on the target or deliver the best value for money.”

That is quite a damning critique, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

In the report, you make the same point in relation to the evaluation of ScotRail’s experiment to remove peak fares, explicitly stating that the impact on car use of reinstating peak fares was not part of the evaluation. That is quite staggering, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you want to move your questions on, Stuart?

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

You have already been quite critical of the level of evaluation that has been undertaken. On equality impact assessments, one of the report’s themes is the possibility of an unequal impact, including of some of the demand management measures, which we will come to later in the meeting. Do you have a sense of whether full equality impact assessments are being done of the current transport system or of proposals for modal shift, for example? Is that part and parcel of the approach being taken by Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government?

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

On that point of controversy—given that lots of disabled groups are very upset about the reduction in station ticket office opening hours—we will bring this morning’s evidence session to a close.

I thank our guests this morning: Malcolm Bell, from the Accounts Commission; Ashleigh Madjitey from the Audit Scotland office; and Cornilius Chikwama, also from Audit Scotland. In particular, I thank you, Auditor General, for your patience with some of our questions and the fullness of your responses. You have undertaken to give us a bit more information and granular detail about what makes up so-called “internationally defined domestic transport”. We look forward to seeing that and poring over in the next few weeks. Thank you very much indeed.

11:35 Meeting continued in private until 11:54.  

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

Many questions arise from that, but I want to move the discussion on to a related subject. I presume that, when a target such as the proposed 20 per cent reduction in car kilometres by 2030, relative to the 2019 baseline, is announced, we would expect there to be a cross-Government drive on that. What you have described does not appear to be even a cross-transport drive. Have you seen cross-Government working to meet the target that was set, which was a clear and important signal of public policy?

09:45  

Public Audit Committee

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Richard Leonard

You are not here to speak on behalf of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, but the report mentions that a joint governance group was supposed to be established—involving, I presume, local authority leaders and agencies and central Government leaders and agencies. Has that governance group been constituted yet?