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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

No—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

But what is your view of the fact that we have been told that the only institutions that were considered for this course were Harvard, Stanford and Yale?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

You “have not come across” it. Okay, that is interesting.

As I understand it, mentoring programmes and such things are part of the fabric of personal development in the civil service. Is that right?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Maybe that was another facet of the business case that was drawn up by the chief operating officer.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you very much indeed. I am sorry that there has been an air of rushing in the session. As the deputy convener remarked, your report is comprehensive and has given us a lot of evidence to consider. We will also consider whether we might want to invite more witnesses to give us their views on your findings in the annual section 23 audit of the NHS.

Auditor General, thank you very much for your evidence. I also thank Cornilius Chikwama, Leigh Johnston and Martin McLauchlan.

11:39 Meeting continued in private until 11:53.  

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 10th meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee. The first agenda item for the committee to consider is whether to take items 4 to 7 in private. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

The next item on our agenda is consideration of “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”. We have a number of witnesses from the Scottish Government and from the Water Industry Commission with us this morning. You are very welcome.

Our witnesses from the Scottish Government are Roy Brannen, who is the director general of net zero; Kersti Berge, who is the director of energy and climate change; and Jon Rathjen, who is the deputy director for water policy and for the directorate for energy and climate change operations.

We are joined from WICS by Professor Donald MacRae, who is the chair of the board; Robin McGill, who is a member of the board and the chair of the commission’s audit and risk committee; and David Satti, who is down in our papers as the director of strategy and governance, but I know that, as of yesterday, he was appointed as the interim accountable officer, so we will be asking him questions in that capacity, too.

We have quite a number of questions that we want to put but, before we get to those, I invite Roy Brannen and then Mr MacRae to make a short opening statement each. Over to you, director general.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Yes—but even with the benefit of hindsight, you did not challenge the expenditure. In fact, you agreed with it, then, in turn, you authorised the expenditure. It was in your gift to turn it down. That option was open to you, was it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Can somebody tell me what this chief operating officer does, and why they need £77,000 worth of training?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

You are a very experienced economics professor. The CV for Jo Armstrong, who was on Mr McGill’s audit and risk committee, says that she holds two economics degrees and is a business economist. Therefore, you are familiar with the academic landscape. Earlier on, did you say that you were not aware of any of this at the time?