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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3919 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Richard Leonard

I am sorry, but I was never very good at arithmetic. You mentioned £200 million and £460 million, but the figure in the report is £756 million. Is there a missing £100 million somewhere?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

You made an interesting point earlier when you said that, in the context of the programme for government, the Government and the First Minister want a

“national approach to skills planning”.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Hang on a minute. A commitment to look at the outcome is different from saying that we are going to pay for it or that we will honour it.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

You say that you are willing to fund the commitment, but that willingness is subject to the amount that is entailed in it. It is subject to whether you approve of the methodology of the job evaluation. It seems that you are dipping in and out with the extent to which you are prepared to intervene in the process.

You are saying, “This is not a matter for the Government; it is a matter for the employers and trade unions to sort out.” If the employers and trade unions sort it out, is it not then the responsibility of the Government to step in and say, “You have carried out a job evaluation. These are the results. There will be some losers, as well as some winners—possibly. How do we deal with that? We have a commitment to those employees, those workers, that they will get—”

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Reflecting on the answers that you have just given us, do you accept that there is a flat-cash settlement that represents a 17 per cent real-terms cut in funding for Scotland’s colleges?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Are you saying to me this morning that there is still a possibility that the apprenticeship funding could sit in the hands of Skills Development Scotland?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

So the answer to my question is yes; it could conceivably stay with Skills Development Scotland.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Many people have been calling for that for a long time. How do you achieve that when, as we were told earlier in the evidence session, individual colleges work with their regional economies and local employers? How do you get a national strategic approach to skills planning that takes a longer-term view about the direction that the economy is going in and the skills of the future that we will need that might be different or adapted from the skill sets that we are training people for at the moment? How do you reconcile the local and the national?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

Does the Scottish Government or the minister not have any responsibility for making sure that the outcome of the job evaluation process is an objective assessment of whether people are being paid correctly? Some people may get paid less as a result of the job evaluation, but there is obviously also an expectation that some people will receive an uprating in their pay to reflect their duties. Does the Scottish Government not take any responsibility at all for that?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2024”

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Richard Leonard

I think that you will need to take that up with the Minister for Higher and Further Education, Graham.

I thank our witnesses very much indeed for the evidence that they have given us. It is much appreciated. I thank Richard Maconachie, Lynne Raeside and Martin Boyle from the Scottish Funding Council for their contributions. I also thank Neil Rennick and Shirley Laing from the Scottish Government for their input. There were one or two items to follow up, such as the split between non-teaching staff and teaching staff redundancies, but we will do that.

I now move the committee into private.

10:15 Meeting continued in private until 10:33.