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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 October 2025
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Displaying 3424 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2022/23 audit of Lews Castle College”

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 3, which is consideration of the 2022-23 audit of Lews Castle College, is our principal session this morning. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses. We are joined by the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle. Alongside the Auditor General is Mark MacPherson, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland. I am also pleased to welcome Ian Howse, who is the public sector industry lead partner at Deloitte and was directly involved in oversight of the audit.

We have a number of questions to put to you this morning, but, before we get to those, I invite the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Interests

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning, and welcome, everyone, to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. We are joined by Joe FitzPatrick, whom I very much welcome to the committee. Before we start the business proper, I invite him to declare any relevant interests.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2022/23 audit of Lews Castle College”

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Richard Leonard

The audit was carried out by Deloitte on behalf of Audit Scotland, and the report that we have before us is an Audit Scotland section 22 report. Therefore, can you be clear, Auditor General: do you agree with Mr Howse’s interpretation of the rules and regulations and the accountancy practices?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2022/23 audit of Lews Castle College”

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you want to add to that, Auditor General?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2022/23 audit of Lews Castle College”

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Colin Beattie has some questions on the same theme.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2022/23 audit of Lews Castle College”

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Richard Leonard

I will finish with a question that goes back to an earlier point that we discussed, which involved the delay in the laying of the 2022-23 accounts. On further reflection, I note that the letter that we received from Lydia Rohmer, the principal and chief executive of UHI North, West and Hebrides, says that the reason for the delay was, in part,

“a combination of rescheduled audit work and the wider capacity pressures in Scotland’s public audit system”,

which rather points the finger at you, Auditor General.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. You are leading me, inevitably, to questions about the Gresham House Forestry Fund, which was, for a while, the biggest investment that the Scottish National Investment Bank had made. Indeed, it went up to your £50 million limit. You might have heard me talk about this before, but when the investment in the Gresham House Forestry Fund was first announced, I looked at the basis of the fund, and it appeared to be less about saving the planet and planting trees than it was about helping wealthy people avoid paying tax. How do you respond to that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I am reminded of the century-old question of the Macmillan gap and whether there is sufficient patient capital for the small and medium-sized enterprise sector, but that is a whole other discussion, which we do not have time for.

I thank Willie Watt and Al Denholm for their participation in the committee’s work. It has been a long session, but we have found it productive, illuminating and valuable for the committee. There are a couple of areas that we might want to follow up on, but we will be in contact with you to remind you of those and to seek any further information. If we do not see you again, Mr Denholm, we wish you well for your long and prosperous retirement. You never know, we might see Mr Watt again before the parliamentary session finishes.

I close the public part of the meeting and move the committee into private session.

11:34 Meeting continued in private until 12:41.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I also want to ask about what, to me, sounded a bit like potential mission creep. My concept of the investment bank is that it is there to stimulate indigenous businesses and—I say this as a bit of a romantic—boost the manufacturing sector, which I think is important if we are to have a balanced economy. Can you take us through this whole thing about asset management? I am not asking you to repeat the answers that you gave to Colin Beattie, but I felt that, when you were talking about that, there could be a danger—perhaps not under your tenure, Mr Watt, nor under Mr Denholm’s, but with the people coming after you—that some might see themselves more as asset managers than innovative state interventionist generators of local jobs, promoting manufacturing and so on. How do you ensure that the institution does not transform itself into a patient capital asset manager instead of being a nimble, fleet-of-foot and innovative stimulator of economic development?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Before I bring in Colin Beattie, I want to take you back to your answer to Graham Simpson some time ago, when you said that changing the public sector regime would require legislation. Would it not just require a change to the Treasury rules? In other words, have you done any research that leads you to the conclusion that a change in the law would be required, rather than it just being a matter of reforming the way that the Treasury works?