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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. This has been a very useful session for us. The point of it was to shed light. At times, we have had a bit of heat, but I think that we have had a fair amount of light as well. Mr Miller, it is important that the points made collectively by our witnesses are on the public record, to ensure that they are clear for all to see.
As we discussed, you will perhaps supply us with further information. Mr Irwin, we are looking forward to Friday, when documents on due diligence will be produced. We might get back to you in the light of our having read those. We will also reflect on your invitation to revisit the yard. I think that there might be some benefit in our doing so, but that will be for the committee to decide.
I thank all our witnesses. We wish you luck with your continued endeavours. We want you to succeed, which is why we sometimes ask quite difficult questions.
11:56 Meeting continued in private until 12:25.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
I am now going to invite Stuart McMillan to put questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Those waiting with bated breath for Stuart McMillan’s thoughts on these matters will have to wait a little bit longer, because I am going to invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to the witnesses.
10:45Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
It might have been useful for us to see those minutes before you came to give evidence.
On a related point, Mr Irwin, because you have written to us previously to inform us, we know that you plan to publish an information pack on the due diligence reports in connection with FMPG and also a few other instances. That is due to be published in two days. Is there any reason why that could not have been published in advance of today’s meeting and evidence session?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
In the interest of establishing some facts for the record, I have a couple of quick questions. I am hoping for quick answers, following the discussion that you have just had with Mr Simpson.
Mr Irwin, I think that you said that you were made aware on 28 February that the board was considering dismissing, or was going to dismiss, Mr Tydeman. That is at a slight variance with what Parliament was told by the cabinet secretary, who said that on 28 February she was told that the board was considering action. It was only on 18 March that she was informed that there was the intention to dismiss Mr Tydeman in the week commencing 25 March. Could you clear that up for us, please?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
No. I am asking you a direct question, Mr Miller.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay. This will be my final point before I ask our deputy convener to come in. The other thing that Mr Tydeman said was about the arrangement whereby the individual who was on secondment set up a private limited company and so on. Mr Tydeman said to you, Mr Dishon, in February 2024 that he had questions about the IR35 assumptions surrounding that arrangement. Did he raise those with you at that point?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
You do not remember that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Your own framework agreement, which you signed off, says that there is a responsibility on the Scottish Government’s strategic commercial assets division to
“address in a timely manner any significant issues arising in the organisation including financial and operational and when appropriate intervening”.
Why have there not been interventions in the cases that were identified in the audit report?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Richard Leonard
For 15 minutes?