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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 January 2026
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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I welcome everybody back. The next item on the agenda is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 22 report “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”. I am very pleased to welcome our witnesses. We are joined by the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle. Good morning, Auditor General. Alongside the Auditor General is Rachel Browne, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland, and Eva Thomas-Tudo, who is an audit manager at Audit Scotland. The committee is also joined by Michael Marra for this evidence session on NHS Tayside, and I remind everyone that Joe FitzPatrick is joining us via videolink.

We have some questions, Auditor General, but before we get to those, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Richard Leonard

The deputy convener has one final question to put to you, Auditor General. Jamie, over to you.

12:30  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of NHS Tayside”

Meeting date: 10 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will now bring this agenda item to a close and take the opportunity to thank Eva Thomas-Tudo, Rachel Browne and the Auditor General for your evidence. Some things might require to be followed up, and the committee will need to consider in due course whether it will be appropriate to get in representatives from NHS Tayside and ask them further questions.

As agreed earlier by the committee, I now move the meeting into private session.

12:32 Meeting continued in private until 12:47.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That is very helpful.

My last question on that is: why did it take you six months to resign, if that was such a critical point?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much.

The key facts at the start of the report make the point that you have just alluded to, Auditor General, which is that although there is a 1.6 per cent contribution from land and buildings transaction tax and a 0.1 per cent contribution from the landfill tax, by far and away what we are talking about this morning is income tax, is it not? Income tax makes up almost a third of the Scottish budget. We need to be clear in our evidence session this morning that, first and foremost, we are talking about income tax.

Some of your recommendations are primarily about the Government’s approach to income tax. What struck me is that the six recommendations that you make on page 6 of the report, which are all directed at the Scottish Government, all talk about transparency and things being set out more clearly. They talk about information being more “accessible and transparent”, set out “more transparently”, and being stated “clearly”, to

“support transparency and public understanding.”

There is a bit of a problem here, is there not? The current approach is opaque.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

To use my old trade union terminology, is this just a long-term negotiation? Is there a dispute? At what level is the dispute? Is it at ministerial level? Is it at official level? What is the role of HMRC in this? HMRC obviously has relationships with the UK Government, the Treasury and the Scottish Government, and has had for quite a number of years.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That is fine. I appreciate that. Thank you. Graham Simpson has some questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

We have time for one final question, and I am going to indulge the deputy convener.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I welcome people back to the Public Audit Committee. Agenda item 3 is further consideration of the 2023-24 audit of UHI Perth College. I am very pleased to welcome our three witnesses: Dr Margaret Cook, former principal and chief executive of the college; Graham Watson, former chair of the college board; and Iain Wishart, the former vice principal for operations. I think that you were all in post during the financial year in which the audit was conducted. We have a number of questions to put to you, but I give you the opportunity, before we get to those questions, to make some opening remarks.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will come on to some of the detail of that.

Dr Cook, I think that you mentioned this in your opening statement, but did you see the Auditor General’s evidence session at this committee on 8 October?