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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
The 2030 emissions reduction target has been dropped altogether, has it not?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
You said earlier that your assessment was that we are moving away from, rather than closer to, that target.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
It does not escape the notice of this committee that it is senior elected politicians, up to and including previous First Ministers, who have declared a climate emergency and, presumably, have pronounced on the need to meet the 20 per cent reduction target by 2030. If there is a lack of leadership, we might draw the conclusion that there is a lack of political leadership as well as a lack of some kind of agency leadership among those who are charged with delivering on this.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed.
In your opening statement, you repeated the conclusion that you reached in the report that
“It is unlikely that the Scottish Government will achieve its target … by 2030.”
Will you elaborate on why you reached that stark conclusion and whether the target was ever achievable?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the seventh meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.
Item 1 is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Do we agree to do so?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Item 2 is consideration of the joint report by the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, “Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”.
I am pleased to welcome our witnesses: Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General, who is joined by Cornilius Chikwama, audit director, and Ashleigh Madjitey, audit manager, Audit Scotland. I am pleased to say that we are also joined by Malcolm Bell, who is representing the Accounts Commission. You are welcome to the committee, Mr Bell.
We have some questions to put to you on the report, Auditor General, but before we turn to them, I invite you to make an opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Stick to the questions, Stuart.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
On that point of controversy—given that lots of disabled groups are very upset about the reduction in station ticket office opening hours—we will bring this morning’s evidence session to a close.
I thank our guests this morning: Malcolm Bell, from the Accounts Commission; Ashleigh Madjitey from the Audit Scotland office; and Cornilius Chikwama, also from Audit Scotland. In particular, I thank you, Auditor General, for your patience with some of our questions and the fullness of your responses. You have undertaken to give us a bit more information and granular detail about what makes up so-called “internationally defined domestic transport”. We look forward to seeing that and poring over in the next few weeks. Thank you very much indeed.
11:35 Meeting continued in private until 11:54.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
You have already been quite critical of the level of evaluation that has been undertaken. On equality impact assessments, one of the report’s themes is the possibility of an unequal impact, including of some of the demand management measures, which we will come to later in the meeting. Do you have a sense of whether full equality impact assessments are being done of the current transport system or of proposals for modal shift, for example? Is that part and parcel of the approach being taken by Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 February 2025
Richard Leonard
Many questions arise from that, but I want to move the discussion on to a related subject. I presume that, when a target such as the proposed 20 per cent reduction in car kilometres by 2030, relative to the 2019 baseline, is announced, we would expect there to be a cross-Government drive on that. What you have described does not appear to be even a cross-transport drive. Have you seen cross-Government working to meet the target that was set, which was a clear and important signal of public policy?
09:45