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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 July 2025
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Displaying 3266 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

The part of the bill that says an unlicensed operator could do what?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I accept that. On part 2, you are right—it is a suggestion. However, we already have the powers to put a register in place under previous legislation. I agree with you that the wording of part 2 does not mean that a register would have to happen; you just want the ability for it to happen. I hope that I have outlined some concerns that you might want to address when you give evidence and as you take the bill forward.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

That depends on the shape or form in which the bill goes through Parliament. There are two parts to it. If it goes through in its current form, there will be a registration system for unlicensed breeders and—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I appreciate that Ms Hamilton wants to hammer home points that have already been made, but I am not entirely sure what I can usefully add to what I have already said. It is right to point out that the code of practice already exists, as do the powers to amend it under the 2006 act.

There is one thing to say about members’ bills. I know that a few people around this table have introduced members’ bills in the past; I certainly did when I was a back bencher. A member’s bill can raise awareness of an issue and can have a campaign associated with it. It can shine a light on an issue that a member feels lacks awareness in society. I applaud members who do that, and this is one such case.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I have heard the evidence that the awareness of the code of practice is low. I imagine that the general public has a low awareness of quite a lot of codes of practice that have resulted from legislation. They would have to go to a Government website. However, it is about the campaigns that happen off the back of those codes of practice, which I have alluded to.

Although we might not have a lot of people logging on to look at the 2009 code of practice, we have the awareness that has emanated from that as a result of the public campaigns that I mentioned, which involve the Scottish Government working with the SSPCA. The “Where’s mum?” campaign, the yearly campaigns that we are all aware of about buying puppies at Christmas time and the “Adopt, don’t shop” campaigns all emanate from that code of practice.

I understand that people’s awareness of the letter of the code of practice as it is written is probably not high. Let us face it—we are talking about the general public, who do not spend their time on Government websites. However, there is an awareness out there—very much so—of the importance of seeing puppies with their mother, of looking to adopt adult dogs rather than puppies and of what people need to consider ahead of taking a dog into their home if it is to fit in with their lifestyle. As I said, there is also more awareness of health conditions that are associated with dogs. That general awareness has come from campaigning that probably stemmed from the existing code of practice.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I understand the worry, and it is probably not enough for me to say that it is unlikely that the police would ever fall for or be convinced by such activity. We need to accept that people are still worried about being accused of something and investigated. I was struck by how vociferous Alex Hogg was—I do not quite remember, but I think that he used the phrase “scared to death”—so we need to have due regard to that worry.

I reiterate that I am open to any suggestions that might be made in the committee’s report or might come from individuals about stage 2 amendments that members or the Government might lodge. At the moment, we think that the other offences provide enough of a deterrent, but we are open to suggestions—I cannot say it much more strongly than that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I know that the committee heard from NatureScot that, to suspend a licence, it would have to be convinced that something serious had happened. It would not suspend a licence on the basis of supposition.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

We are only at stage 1. It is my job to consider any proposal that a member makes ahead of stage 2. Having been on the other side of the table for many years, I encourage members to ask for meetings with me so that we can look at their proposals and see whether the Government can support them.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

If we had a date, we would give you it, but we do not.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I will have to ask for more clarity in relation to your question. Are you saying that there is not a connection between the evidence and what we are doing in the bill? What do you mean by “rational connection”?