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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 August 2025
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Displaying 3268 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Can I take that away? I do not want an arbitrary trigger that would leave us in the same situation of having a target that is not measurable. Maybe we can bottom that out. I will speak to my officials, and we can speak about whether that is doable.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

The premise of your question is that the Scottish Government cannot meet its offshore wind ambitions, but, in fact—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

I am not quite sure how to answer that. The fact remains that the Scottish Government has responsibility for inshore areas and the UK Government has responsibility for offshore areas.

That exemplifies why it is important that the UK Government, as well as the Scottish Government, takes into account the net zero goals and the biodiversity goals. Interoperability between the four nations is extremely important, because biodiversity does not have boundaries—species do not have boundaries. We all have to work together to—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Good environmental status is a UK-wide endeavour, if that answers your question.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes. In my response to Emma Harper, I explained why such alignment could be very important. Obviously, we would want there to be alignment so that we do not have a gap. Guidance is, of course, not legally binding, but it is sensible to provide it if there is a gap. I will take advice from my official, who looks as though she might have something to add.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

No. The target-setting criteria are as I laid them out. We want alignment with the biodiversity strategy and the global biodiversity framework. The target-setting criteria were set out for the bill, with all the alignments. There had to be criteria for setting the targets. It is not a case of not bringing anything new; it is about the target-setting criteria being interwoven into all the other biodiversity goals, outcomes and frameworks to ensure that the targets are robust, measurable, realistic and achievable.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes—exactly. I come back to the point that we cannot just set arbitrary targets; there have to be criteria behind the targets, and they have to be grounded in all the other strategies that have been followed to get us to 2030, to halt biodiversity decline, to become nature positive and to have species restoration by 2045.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

That is why I was a bit confused.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

Happy days.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Gillian Martin

As you rightly say, it comes back to partnership working and the co-ordination of data. We have identified that there are a few streams of work in some of the bodies that already exist in Scotland, such as NatureScot, which is supporting local environment record centres, for example. It has a budget associated with that of just over £220,000. We engage with and collect and use data from our academic institutions, which are already funded by the public purse. Data also comes in from various third sector organisations, which might involve citizen science as well. We can look at impact assessments, particularly for the target setting, and whether any additional funding is needed once we have set the targets.

It is important to mention that it is not just the bill or my portfolio that have actions to improve data. I am particularly pleased that, recently, the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands and I have jointly budgeted for light detection and ranging data to be collected across Scotland. I am very excited about what the surveys that have been done as part of that will yield. I believe that the planes have already been out to record data on what is actually happening in Scotland’s landscape. That will inform a lot of the work that we do on biodiversity, peatland restoration, the health of some areas and the forestry that is associated with some areas.

It is not just in the bill that there is spend. Data is associated with the actions that the nature restoration fund generates, too. If anything specific arises as a result of the target setting that happens under secondary legislation, we would, of course, have to look at how we would fund it.