Chamber and committees

No. I am glad to hear that the UK Government has been invited to the committee because that level of detail is for it to provide and those questions are for it to answer. There have been high-level announcements and statements about what it will mean in terms of jobs for the area, where the offices will be situated and so on. We were very pleased that Aberdeen was chosen as the headquarters, but what that means in reality in terms of jobs—forgive me for saying so—is a question for Minister Shanks, as are questions around how the priorities might take shape.

We looked at what was required in terms of the legislation around that; it is not something that we are able to do under the current devolution settlement.

The concerns that you have just outlined are the same as my and the Government’s initial concerns when the draft was put in front of us. That is why we have worked so hard to ask for a change to the wording in clause 5 and to get agreement in clause 6 that we will be involved in the consultation around the direction that is given to GB Energy.

I feel confident that the change from “consult” to “consent” will allow future proofing to happen. I am also heartened by the willingness of the chief executive officer, Juergen Maier, to engage with me and the First Minister very early on in his appointment, and to talk about working together. There is also the Secretary of State for Scotland. It will be good for both Governments to have a relationship where consent is in statute, because that will ensure that the Scottish Government is treated as an equal partner.

There is a recognition that the Scottish Government is well ahead—particularly with the work that we have done with Crown Estate Scotland on ScotWind and so on, our onshore wind sector deal, our hydrogen strategy and community energy with the community and rural energy scheme. We are not just an equal partner but—I hope—a source of advice on how GB Energy will best operate in Scotland. From speaking to Juergen Maier, I certainly get the feeling that that will be the case. I have also offered that expertise and discussion to ministers, throughout the process of creating GB Energy. That is why I want the amendment to include the word “consent”.

I do not think that there are any risks. I have the programme for government here, which says:

“Reviewing Crown Estate Scotland’s governance and operating model to ensure it optimises its unique role in value creation and growing sustainable wealth for Scotland through helping deliver the supply chain side of the offshore renewable energy expansion. This will benefit communities and mitigate against climate change and biodiversity loss.”

That will not necessarily need any legislative change; it is about governance, the operating model and working with Crown Estate Scotland in that area.

The situation with regard to giving borrowing powers is quite complex. We do not have the powers to give Crown Estate Scotland borrowing powers. If borrowing powers are given to the Crown Estate in England and Wales, we would need to have a discussion about what that meant for Crown Estate Scotland and whether it wanted to go down the same route.

We would prefer that any activity and funding associated with the Crown Estate also came to Scotland. That is what we are looking for in relation to parity. We do not want to lose any funding.

That is a good question. I think that carbon capture and storage will be a separate thing. I do not think that the committee will be surprised to hear me say that, in respect of carbon capture and storage, the GB Energy Bill is not the big-ticket item—that would be track status being given. We have been waiting for years now for track status to be given to the Acorn project, which is—I say this without any kind of bias—probably one of the most advanced propositions for carbon capture and storage. I do not think that GB Energy itself is going to provide the momentum—putting that project on the track 2 status will be the mechanism that will allow it to go ahead.

Again, the committee might want to get UK Government representatives in front of it and ask where they see their role with carbon capture and storage. My understanding, however, is that GB Energy is about energy generation rather than carbon capture and storage.

On hydro, however, you make a very good point. I personally believe that we could do an awful lot more on hydro in Scotland. Again, I do not know whether that would be in a GB Energy space or whether it would be more about looking at how hydro has been supported more generally by the UK Government. Hydro has perhaps not had the support more generally from the UK Government to enable it to flourish and grow in the way that it should have done. Whether that is for GB Energy to pursue, I do not know; I think that GB Energy will be more project based. If there is a role for GB Energy in projects to do with hydro, again, that is a question for the company itself. There is an awful lot more capacity in hydro in Scotland than we are already realising, so that may be an area that it might want to look at, but, again, that is a question for GB Energy.

GB Energy is not involved in the grid infrastructure. The only discussion that I have had around that is one that I mentioned earlier, in which I wanted to ensure that GB Energy projects would not be able to leapfrog organisations that are in the existing queue for a grid. You raise a very interesting point, Mr Stewart, and I will come back and speak to you about some of those things—at another session, maybe.

There are two elements to that. First, the issue in the bill that we want to bottom out is about consent for strategic decisions on GB Energy’s operations in Scotland—there should be a requirement for consent, not consultation. Secondly, there is the legislative consent for the bill. At the moment, I think that the bill is with the Lords. Once it has come through the Lords, we will see what the UK Government is putting forward by way of amendments to clause 5 and to clause 6, which I might come on to talk about, because that is another issue on which we have had discussions.

We will put in place our supplementary LCM as soon as we see those amendments. If they are in the shape that we hope they will be, that will be a very quick process, because we want to give you as much time as possible.

I do not think that I have worked more closely on anything with the UK Government than I have on the Grangemouth situation. I have also worked with partners in the community of Grangemouth, including the unions, representatives of the workforce, Petroineos, the local council leadership in the area, and the Grangemouth future industry board. I do not think that I have ever been involved in anything that has been so focused on a practical just transition. Both Governments have put substantial funding into project willow but, for us, project willow is not a study; it is a commercial opportunity, and we want to encourage investors to look at it seriously, with a view to the Grangemouth refinery site becoming sustainable, running into the future and bringing massive economic benefit to the country.

Yes.

My understanding is that the bill will be out of the Lords within the next couple of weeks, and there may be amendments made by the Lords. At that point, there will be amendments from the UK Government. As soon as the UK Government tables its amendments, that will effectively be the starting pistol being fired for us to look at those amendments and give our consent.