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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 May 2025
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Displaying 3061 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

We are going to give everyone a break for 10 minutes and then come back.

10:37 Meeting suspended.  

10:47 On resuming—  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

Welcome back. We continue with our questions to the minister on the national care service bill. David Torrance has questions on the charter of rights and responsibilities, complaints and independent advocacy.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

Before I move on to Paul O’Kane, I want to raise an issue. Given that the minister has mentioned outcomes, now seems a good time at which to make this point.

We have heard, particularly from people who work in social care, that the time-and-task model does not focus on outcomes. How will we have systems in place that prioritise outcomes for people, rather than systems dictating the amount of time that a home carer comes in and spends with someone, when they might need more than 15 minutes? You know the scenarios—they have been mentioned to us. This is about people’s outcomes, rather than having a system dictating what care people get.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

That would be helpful. We understand that you cannot outline the whole list just now, but it would be good for us to have that information.

Sandesh, do you have a follow-up question before we move on to questions from Tess White?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

The next item on our agenda is the final oral evidence session in the committee’s stage 1 scrutiny of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. We are taking evidence from the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care and supporting officials. I welcome to the committee the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care, Kevin Stewart and, from the Scottish Government, Fiona Bennett, who is the interim deputy director for the national health service, integration and social care finance, and Anna Kynaston, who is deputy director of national care service programme design, engagement and legislation. Good morning to you all. I invite the minister to make a brief opening statement.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

Thank you, minister, and thank you for referencing the amount of outreach work that we have done. That gives me the opportunity to thank everyone whom we have met across Scotland in our outreach work and public engagement.

There are two common queries that people have put to us, which I will now put to you. They have come up quite a lot in the informal and formal sessions that we have had.

Over our weeks of evidence gathering, many people whom we have spoken to have said that there is already a lot of excellent legislation relating to care; that there are already excellent policies that they were very excited about when the policies were announced; and that there are lots of frameworks and strategies. However, there is a big implementation gap. How would the national care service close that implementation gap? Do we need a national care service to close that implementation gap, and why can that not be done now? That is the first query.

The second query is more of a comment. People have said that there is not enough detail in the bill for them to be able to ascertain what the national care service will be.

I put those to you in a oner. They are big questions, but they come up a lot.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

Okay. I wanted to give you clarity as to what David Torrance was getting at.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

We will have a question from Carol Mochan, before we start to talk about co-design in more detail.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

Stephanie Callaghan will have the last question before we take a break.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Gillian Martin

A number of members want to pick up on things that the minister has said on this theme. We will hear them individually and I ask them to ask just one question because we need to move on to talk about co-design and implementation in detail. Sandesh Gulhane is first on my list.