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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 2 November 2025
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Displaying 3168 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

Thanks, convener. I could probably go on longer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

Ms Viswanathan, I think that you are involved in the SFC. Is that correct? You are on one of the committees. Does the SFC have the powers it needs to oversee the financial sustainability of universities?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

I presume that it is also about whether a college is making sufficient adaptations to fit its income. I do not know about colleges, but we certainly get the impression that some universities have been more agile and have reacted more quickly to the drop in the number of overseas students. I realise that that is less of an issue for colleges, but I presume that it is about both of those things. Do you think that the SFC is proactive enough, or does it just sit back?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

Financial sustainability has been mentioned by one or two of the witnesses, so I will ask you about that. Section 9 of the bill states:

“The Council must secure the monitoring of the financial sustainability of post-16 education bodies.”

We were told that that happens at the moment; it is just being formalised. Paul Grice, does it happen at the moment?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

You do not have to.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

There is quite a lot in there that I could pursue with you. The extra money that the SFC is getting for this apparently new legal duty is not very much. I think that, in a full year, it is between £16,000 and £110,000. That raises the question—and I suspect that the colleges would raise this as well—of what it actually does with the information. You said that the system may or may not be working in practice. In practice, is it very dependent on universities and colleges giving it the information? Is it proactive at all? Does the funding council come into the universities at all?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

That is helpful. Thanks.

I just quoted the bit about the funding council having to “secure the monitoring”, whatever that means. There is also a bit about its being able to make recommendations and give guidance. Do you think that there needs to be something more solid in the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

That is clear enough. Thank you. I will come back to the other two witnesses shortly. Could you give us an idea of some of the figures that are involved in this? The point has been made that the colleges get a lot more money than the private providers. I assume that the cost varies with the apprenticeship, but what is it costing an employer either to pay a college—the colleges have told us that employers are expected to pay part of the cost—or to pay you for the training?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

Ms Lowe, do you want to add anything to all that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

John Mason

Do not tell me if it is confidential, but you are quite a small organisation, are you not? You are presumably being audited yourselves. The SFC is obviously more geared for bigger organisations. If anything happened to you personally, or to your organisation, would there be continuity? Could it carry on with the apprentices?