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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 March 2026
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Displaying 3658 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

John Mason

Another theme that has been highlighted, certainly by COSLA but also by other people, is multiyear funding and having a bit more funding certainty over five years, say, to start with. The idea came from not just COSLA but the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, much of whose funding comes from local government and from whom we will be hearing later.

How would more certainty in that area make a difference? I am attracted to the multiyear model, but it makes things a bit inflexible. If Glasgow City Council awarded money to a local group or charity for five years and halfway through that period it was found that the group was not performing, there would not be not much room to change the situation. Do you have thoughts on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

John Mason

You mentioned that the share of the total budget that local government gets has fallen from 34 per cent to 28 per cent. Would you and your colleagues argue that we should choose a figure—perhaps 34 per cent—and fix it permanently as the local government share?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

John Mason

So maybe we should target our support more towards the other universities?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

John Mason

But, by your argument, surely we should pay more for a student at Glasgow Caledonian University than we do for a student at the University of Glasgow, for example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

John Mason

I might return to that point. I was interested in Daniel Johnson’s questions about what people think of the voluntary sector, because it covers an incredibly wide range of things. At one end, you represent what I would call the small charities that are wholly staffed by volunteers and get no public money; you also represent big organisations—Quarriers and so on—that get a lot of public money. Have some of the organisations in the sector become too dependent on public money? Presumably, they started off relying on donations, mainly.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

John Mason

Multiyear funding, which we addressed in the previous evidence session, too, is an issue at every point in the process—the UK Government gives money to the Scottish Government; the Scottish Government gives money to local government; and local government gives money to voluntary organisations.

If, say, Glasgow City Council could not guarantee a particular charity 100 per cent funding for the next five years but could guarantee 80 per cent funding, that would give some certainty to the organisation, which could then flex, depending on what else it could get. Would that be an acceptable compromise?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

John Mason

That is a fair answer—it is actually quite a good one. I will leave it at that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

John Mason

I take your point that there are poorer people in all communities. I have been in Aberdeen and seen the poorer areas there, for example. However, it could also be said that, in general, a poorer person who lives in a richer area will do better than a poorer person in a poor area. Would you accept that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

John Mason

I take that point. I am very much in favour, for example, of the fact that, as you will probably know, the Burrell Collection has been upgraded. However, by that argument, you could say that any expenditure anywhere will give poorer areas a boost, but it needs to be targeted to some extent.

I go back to your letter. One of the questions was about what would happen if, during the bid process or in spending the money, something untoward were to happen. You answered that to an extent, but what would happen if a bid came in and inflation—which is a bit higher and looks likely to remain persistently higher than most of us expected—took off? Would there be any extra money?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

John Mason

Last—I will let others decide whether it is least—I would like to return to the question of whether the money is going to the neediest areas, although I realise that colleagues have already touched on that. In your helpful letter to the committee, Mr Gove, you say that 60 per cent of the bids have gone to priority 1 areas in Scotland. I find that a little bit surprising. If we are really levelling up, should it not be 100 per cent?

We have a cross-party group on industrial communities, which tends to focus on the former coalfields and other industrial areas. It also works closely with the Industrial Communities Alliance. It did an analysis of the 105 successful bids and made the point that, of the 94 successful bids in England, Scotland and Wales, only 42 came from the poorest third of sub-regions, going by gross value added per head, and that 14 of the successful bids came from sub-regions in which GVA per head is above the UK average, including six in London. Based on those figures, people might think that the money is not just going to the poorest areas.