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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 May 2025
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Displaying 2559 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

John Mason

I am the last member to ask a question before we get to the Dundee folk, and I will touch on one or two issues. You said that you, or one of your colleagues, wrote to the UK Government on 21 November about the national insurance changes. What happens if you do not get an answer, which would in effect mean that there is no extra money?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

John Mason

It is a slight delay of a month and a half so far. Will there not have to come a time when you say, “This is the budget for A, B, C and D”? It might not be you who does that—it will be Shona Robison.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

John Mason

Okay. I will not pursue that further just now.

We have talked about colleges quite a lot, but I do not think that we have mentioned support staff. There was quite a dispute over the lecturers, which I think has been resolved, which is great. However, it has been suggested that support staff will also need a pay settlement. Can you say anything on that? Is there enough in the budget for it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

John Mason

That was the case with the lecturers, but the Government put in some extra money—it was £4.5 million, I think—to resolve that. Would the Government do the same for the support staff?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

John Mason

We have talked quite a lot about college and university funding. One of the colleges’ arguments is that they get so much less per student than universities do. Of course, it will vary within courses, as some courses will be more expensive than others. I am not asking for more money for colleges and universities but, as a general point, is the way in which we are sharing the money out fair, and is it the best way?

One aspect of that is the difference between colleges and universities, but I wonder, too, whether universities should not be means tested in some way. The University of Glasgow and the University of Edinburgh are sitting on huge reserves. Although the University of Dundee has problems, the last accounts for it that I looked at show £160 million of unrestricted reserves, which is huge compared with, say, Glasgow Caledonian University or some of the colleges in Glasgow. I wonder whether we have the balance right as to who we are supporting.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

John Mason

I have one final area that I want to touch on. The Finance and Public Administration Committee has been focusing on public sector reform, and I think that Ivan McKee is leading on that.

Do you have any thoughts about public sector reform in the education sector? Given that we cannot change the pupil to teacher ratio and so on, is reform more difficult in the education sector? Is there scope to bring in artificial intelligence or that kind of thing, so that one teacher can help more kids?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Mason

One of the themes of your report, which comes up quite a lot, is that the Government is reacting to events and does not have a longer-term plan. However, is there not a certain inevitability of that happening in Scotland? For example, the UK Government came in and suddenly introduced a pay increase that was higher than we had previously expected as well as a national insurance increase. Those are events that most of us had not anticipated. What is the Government to do? Surely it simply has to react in the short term.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Mason

Even if we had a medium-term or a long-term or a whatever-number-of-years strategy or plan, it would simply all get thrown by some kind of Westminster decision, such as that on national insurance. I begin to wonder what the point of saying, “This is what we are going to do in 2030,” is, when so many things could happen between now and then. Are we being unrealistic in expecting medium and longer-term planning?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Mason

Maybe I am not putting it very clearly. It seems to me that there is a tension between longer-term planning and commitments on the one hand, which, in a sense, tie the Government’s hands, and on the other, doing short-term things that do not tie our hands, which is a more flexible approach, but is less helpful to the third sector and local government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Mason

I turn to public sector reform. In paragraph 105 you say that public sector reform requires “significant investment”. There is the example of Registers of Scotland, which will be coming up, among others, in the next evidence session. Registers of Scotland seems to have managed to reform, digitise, do a lot of that kind of stuff and save on 10 per cent of its jobs—all without extra investment. It has just done that as part of its routine working. Is that possible on a bigger scale?