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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 3406 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

Okay—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

As far as I am aware, the public are not getting excited about the national performance framework—none of them sends me abusive emails about it, although they do about other things. Is that important, Deputy First Minister? You seem to be saying that the thinking is the important thing. We, the local authorities, charities and the third sector are all thinking about the values in the NPF but not necessarily talking about them using those words. Are you satisfied with that, or would it be better if more people throughout society were talking about the national performance framework?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

The idea that we should not work in silos and that we should be collaborative has come up quite a lot, and I fully agree with it. The counter to that—a slightly different suggestion—from some organisations is that it would help for organisations such as local authorities, universities or the health service to be tied more into specific outcomes, rather than everybody being responsible for everything. The thinking is that it is harder to hold bodies such as NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde to account if they are responsible for everything, whereas it is easier to hold them to account if they are responsible for one or two things.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

I take your point, Mr Brodie, that there is a difference between skills and education. However, are we sending too many people to university?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

That is a fair point. I am an accountant, actually. Perhaps the situation is not as simple as I was suggesting. The idea of graduate apprentices is an extremely good one.

You talked about aligning with the needs of the future, or words to that effect. I am not asking you to do it, but how easy is it for anyone to predict what we will need in the future? I presume that that is why we have the census—I will plug people completing the census today.

During my lifetime, or while I have been a member of the Scottish Parliament, in some years we have said that we have trained too many teachers, but in other years we have said that we have not trained enough teachers. The same applies to nurses and some other professions. Is future need incredibly difficult to predict?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

I was going to ask about that in a supplementary question. You have people in schools; I hope that you can assure me that they are working on this. When I speak to young people when I visit schools, I get the impression that many girls have just not thought about engineering. That is because of peer pressure or their families feeling that they should not go into those jobs. If you can show us figures that show that we are making progress, that will be encouraging. I get a bit despondent at times.

12:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

I absolutely agree with that.

The other thing that I will touch on is the other end of people’s lives—early retirement. It can be argued that people retiring early—especially highly skilled people—is having a negative effect on the productivity of the country as a whole. I have highly skilled friends who are the same age as me who have already retired. Maybe I should be considering it, as well. Is that a bad thing? It provides an opportunity for a younger person to come into a highly skilled job. In terms of the national performance framework, we have other aims in society—for the environment, for example. People who retire early might voluntarily get involved in some of those things. How do we get the balance right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

Thanks, convener. I think that I will carry on working for a bit longer.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

One of the comparisons that have been made is with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. I believe that the Welsh have a commissioner who can challenge the Government from outside. We have commissioners on many things already and I presume that we will have many more in future. What do you think about the idea of having somebody outside Government whose specific job is to challenge all of us on how we tie in with the national performance framework?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

John Mason

Oxfam said that there is not really an outcome that relates to care, and it suggested that we might add such an outcome or be a bit more specific about that. Do you have thoughts on that?