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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 October 2025
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Displaying 3154 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

I want to ask about the profit that might be made from residential services. I realise that Mr Hogg and Mr Bermingham have not said anything for a while. Do either of you have views on that subject? Are excessive profits being made? If you do not have anything to say, that is all right.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

You are more relaxed about how that is done.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Is that primarily about paying the chairs but not the other members?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

If we played around with that, it would affect the figures.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

I think that the Finance and Public Administration Committee is hoping that it is the estimates rather than the guesses. Do the other three of you want to say anything about the financial memorandum before I finish?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Okay. We will chase up other people on that point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Mr Forde and Ms Pasternak, you have said more about profit, so I will come to you next. Mr Hogg made a good point about the need to have a clear definition of profit, because the language in the bill seems vague. Section 8 says that regulations

“may specify … how the level of profit … is to be determined”.

Goodness knows that accountants have been arguing over what profit is for hundreds of years, so it seems unlikely that the Scottish Government is going to come up with a definition in 10 minutes.

Can either of you give me your thoughts about profit? Should there be any profit? Should we eliminate profit, or are we talking about excessive profit or something else?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Do you accept that it is hard to get the sort of balance that you are describing into legislation? On the one hand, we want to give organisations freedom to invest where the need is, but, on the other hand, we do not want to let them make too much profit.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

When you say “going to charities”, do you mean going to chief executives?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

I am sorry to interrupt you with a question that I also asked the previous panel. Is there evidence about whether care is better in the charity sector or in the for-profit sector?