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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 October 2025
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Displaying 3154 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

I will ask mainly about finance, but I will start by picking up on a couple of points that have been made.

Professor Sengupta, you said that social workers can be good advocates for children and young people and look for what is in their best interests. I accept that, but the counterargument from some of the young people and from groups such as Who Cares? Scotland seems to be that the advocate’s role is not so much about considering what is best for the child as about what the child wants. I do not know whether you have seen that organisation’s video, but it shows a child who wants to be with their sibling, which a social worker might or might not think is in the child’s best interests. Is there not a difference between advocating for what is best for the child and just putting forward what they want?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

Okay.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

Two of the young people in the group that I was in discussed that point at last night’s meeting. They were okay with the idea of the profit being reinvested in, for example, making the building better. However, you also make the point that providers

“are currently required to be non-profit organisations and yet, issues related to profit remain.”

Could you explain what that means? For example, one of the young people said that the chief executive of their charity had a very fancy car. Is it the case that, even though providers might not be making a profit, they might not be spending the money in the right way?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

In general, would you say that an organisation that is making a profit provides a worse service or a better service, or do you not know?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

The point has been made that we are dealing with residential providers differently from how the fostering agencies are dealt with. I think that COSLA made that point, along with others. We are insisting that one group be charities, but not the other. That is slightly different from the Welsh model. Are you comfortable with that arrangement, or do you have reservations about it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

I think that we have covered that already. I am really just—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

Has that started happening in Wales?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

That raises a load more questions for me, but I will not go down that route at this point.

What do the other two witnesses think about the issue of profit and profiteering? I do not know whether you heard the evidence from the previous panel, but the point was made that, even if a profit is not made, if a lot of the money goes to the management and the people at the top and less money goes to the people at the bottom, that might be a misuse of resources. To what extent do we as the public sector—whether that is the state, councils or whoever—need to get involved in the issue of profit, finances and how the money is used?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

To clarify, does that mean that the turnover of staff is greater in the private sector?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

John Mason

So the needs of the kids in the public sector are greater.