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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1032 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Do you accept that there is a balance to be struck between the need to provide environments that will help to rehabilitate and assist those young people and giving the public the confidence that, depending on the offences that they have committed, they are in genuinely secure accommodation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Mr Hogg, in response to Willie Rennie’s question on the subject of victims, you talked about early signposting to victim support. However, it not practical to assume that police officers, who are dealing with very troubled and traumatic situations in which people are very upset, as well as doing so much else, can be a conduit for information and, at the end of the interaction, say, “By the way, you can go to victim support. Here is a card.” How do you ensure that, at a very early stage, beyond the first police interaction, victims are signposted to their opportunity to contact victim support?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

It does, and, unless Superintendent Dobson corrects me, it is unrealistic to guarantee that police officers—considering everything else they deal with—will provide that information at the outset.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I fully recognise that a balance has to be struck in these circumstances. Megan Farr is right when she talks about the risk of imparting information that is then shared on social media. However, do you not recognise that, in some of these cases, there is a sense that a package of measures is being put around the alleged perpetrator, but the victim is left wondering how they can be confident that their needs are being met? When MSPs who pick up those cases for their constituents try to get information, they are told, “We can’t give you that, because it is about measures that we have taken in relation to the alleged perpetrator.” Do you not accept that it sometimes appears that the victims and their families are forgotten in all of this?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Are there any other comments, or does that cover it? If not, that is excellent—we will move on.

The bill provides that, where a child should be deprived of their liberty, no one under the age of 18 can be committed to a prison or a young offenders institution. They would instead enter secure accommodation or similar residential establishments. I think that we would all welcome that move, but do you have any concerns about moving to that set-up—perhaps around capacity? Are all of the existing facilities that would accommodate those young people of a suitable standard? I am not trying to put words into your mouth; I am just planting those ideas. Is there anything there that makes you think, “This is great, but—”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I was struck by the idea that witnesses do not tell Parliament and committees what should be added to a bill by way of amendment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Absolutely.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Thank you. I just wanted to get that on the record.

Will the witnesses outline for us how a reporter currently decides whether a child or young person should be referred to the children’s hearings system? Can you give us a feel for the thought process around that? Will that change in any way as a result of the bill? If so, how?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

My final question will perhaps engage the other two witnesses in the discussion. Recently, the SCRA and the Procurator Fiscal Service did research into children aged 12 to 15 who were involved in offending and were referred to the children’s reporter and the procurator fiscal. To what extent did that indicate a strong link between children who come into conflict with the law and the degrees of adversity, trauma, poverty and loss that they have experienced? We can also take account of your personal experience of dealing with such situations beyond the research.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not disagree with that. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. We often find that victims and their families are looking for reassurance and want to know what measures have been taken to protect them, but it is impossible to get information on that. The ground for that is that that information cannot be shared, because those matters pertain to the alleged perpetrator. That exacerbates the sense of concern of victims and their families. That is what I am getting at.

I do not have the answer; I simply wanted to get a sense that you recognise that that is an issue.