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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1032 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I think that it is explainable. We have explained why it is necessary, but I entirely recognise the disappointment and concern that have been expressed by both the colleges and the universities over the impact.

The cabinet secretary and I met Colleges Scotland principals and chairs last week. We also met the Colleges Scotland union representatives on the same day, and we met Universities Scotland. We have had some detailed discussions about this, and they have expressed their concerns—I understand those concerns entirely—but, particularly in the context of colleges, we are already attempting to move on from this jointly and to determine how we can support the colleges into a more sustainable position going forward. We are having and will have similar conversations with the universities.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not think that our language around it has been of that nature. We have just tried to be open and transparent about what has led to this decision.

It is regrettable that we are not in a position to provide the additional money to colleges and universities that we had indicated that we would—that is what we wanted to do—but this is the reality that we are operating in, and we have to deal with the situation as it exists.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

As I have seen, as a member of the committee and then up close as a minister, the industrial relations are not at all good. There have been disputes in eight of the past nine years. Having spoken to both sides, I think that we need to find some way of addressing that. The committee expressed a view on that previously and I share that view.

The universities are in a slightly different set-up in that the industrial dispute is United Kingdom-wide. There is a pay offer, which has been rejected. I have had conversations directly with Universities Scotland on specific issues that are happening in Scotland and I have sought to encourage it to engage constructively with the UCU to try to resolve the matter.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not think that the First Minister shot it down, as you put it; he was just clear that the Scottish Government’s position is that that is a red-line issue for us. Sir Peter is perfectly entitled to express his view. As you will know, he was very clear that he wanted a calm discussion and that it was all about taking a limited approach, but unfortunately in some quarters his view was portrayed as being that he wanted to reintroduce tuition fees, which is not what he was saying at all.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

However, that does not mean that we agree with him—we do not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

Let us deal in facts. In 2021-22, there were 322,332 enrolments at Scottish colleges—an increase of 16 per cent since 2019-20. Colleges delivered 129,559 full-time-equivalent places, which is an increase of 0.5 per cent since 2020-21. A substantial amount of money is put into colleges for student support—£135 million is maintained—because of the very poverty challenges that you are talking about. We have directed a lot of that funding to students from the poorer areas, but my point with regard to funding—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

I want to answer the central point. It is not a case of the Government or me passing the buck. Part of the fine work that this committee has done was its report on attainment funding. The additional moneys that were provided to tackle those issues were very much welcomed by the committee and the wider Parliament. That money has to come from somewhere.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

Should the board be abolished, I think that it would be reasonable to assume that there would be some residual spend on, say, tapering-off costs, but, if such a decision were to be taken, it would be with a view to maximising the moneys that are available to colleges.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Universities and Colleges Funding 2023-24

Meeting date: 17 May 2023

Graeme Dey

To be clear—[Interruption.] Sorry, convener.