Chamber and committees

I have a final question.

So, we can have all those other agreements on security and cyberattacks, for example, but that does not mean that the EU will be willing to look at trade again. That is what we are looking at today. I am interested in jobs, the economy and money in people’s pockets, all of which have gone to pot since Brexit.

I will throw back some of the words that you guys have used this morning. You said that the UK is out of sight and out of mind. In addition, one of you said that, when it came to certain things, the UK is not relevant. Will the UK continue to be out of sight and not relevant when it comes to renegotiating trade agreements?

To use the boxing analogy, the UK is on the canvas at the moment.

Mr Buckley, can I stop you there? We all recognise the security concerns, and we have other international agreements on security, including our NATO obligations. Some folk still think that the UK is a much greater military power than it actually is. Do you really think that that is a major way in, considering that many of the partners in the EU are in NATO, which is a separate organisation?

I will not take the opportunity to crack a joke about CBAMs.

All the things that you are talking about are peripheral things in what I would expect to be normal relationships where countries are trying to get co-operation. None of the things that you said should happen—I do not disagree with many of them—is likely to lead to a change in the trade and co-operation agreement in the near future. That concerns me, and it concerns many people, because it affects the general public through the economy, jobs and livelihoods.

Would you like to comment, Mr Hamilton?

Good morning, panel. What you are describing is a guddle, basically—a guddle of the UK’s own making.

I will turn to your report and some of your conclusions. You say:

“Brexit has had a negative impact on UK-EU goods trade.”

I would say that that is probably an understatement. You then go into more depth and say:

“Costs and administration have increased, goods trade is down and there are concerns”

about newly negotiated FTAs. You say:

“If left unresolved, UK goods trade will continue to suffer, with wider impacts on livelihoods, economic growth and job creation, in already difficult”

times. You have also stated this morning that it looks unlikely that EU partners are willing to open up agreements again, and Peter Holmes said that we need to ask what the UK can offer.

How do we get out of this situation, gentlemen? In my opinion, we should never have left the EU in the first place, but how do we get back in there to a degree to protect industry and jobs here in Scotland and elsewhere in these islands?

Piecemeal and, some would say, chaotic.

I wonder if we could move to Mr Holmes on some of those questions. I am interested in what Mr Buckley said about new ministers possibly going to Brussels and other places in Europe, and perhaps getting the UK back in sight; however, I would suggest that the UK will still not be relevant.

Good morning. I will try not to miss anyone out.

We have heard a lot from young folk, and not just those from The Usual Place, whom we had in the other week. Just last night, I had a conversation with someone about what their autistic daughter wants and needs.

The young folk themselves had very strong opinions about certain things—they were all very articulate. Anne-Marie Sturrock, I am afraid to say that I am going to be harsh, as the young folk from The Usual Place thought that college was a tick-box exercise and that nobody listened to them. They had strong views about schooling, too, and what did and did not work, and they had some views about parents impeding them from reaching their full potential and aspiring to what they wanted to do. My question, basically, is this: do we listen to the voices of lived experience enough in the shaping of policy and services?

If we could start with Tracey Francis, that would be grand.

Let me focus on the specifics that you talked about earlier. You said that when you were working in the college sector a multidisciplinary team was set up, with a transitions officer and all of the rest of it. That probably was not the norm at that time, but might be becoming more so now. Did that set-up and the people who were involved change the culture overall in other parts of the organisation?

Grand. Thank you.

From my perspective, the folks whom we have talked to have been very realistic and some of them have been pretty ambitious, which is not a bad thing. On the role-model aspect, one of the young folk whom we talked to wants to be an actor, but I think that probably a lot of folk have tried to stymie that. Positive role models of learning disabled folks, including an Irish actor who was recently nominated for an Oscar—or, at least, the film that he was in was nominated—have made a difference. You are saying that positive role models need to be brought to the fore.