Chamber and committees

I do not have the information at my fingertips on who is accessing all those modules, but we can get back to the committee with the information that we hold. Hugh Masters has put an R in the box, so he can perhaps come in with some more detailed information.

As I said to Ms Mochan, we have worked with NHS Education for Scotland to embed perinatal mental health in undergraduate education, to increase the number of psychology trainees at postgraduate level, and to roll out the suite of materials that has been mentioned to make them accessible to all professionals across Scotland. The aim is to further develop expertise at all levels across specialist and universal services. Importantly, we have committed to investment in perinatal and infant mental health services beyond the life of the programme board, which will allow health boards to recruit the required staff on permanent contracts and will support the recruitment and retention of staff and the development of centres of expertise.

That expertise is grand—it is brilliant—but we also want others to be able to access the kind of educational materials that Emma Harper has talked about. We have made that possible. If Hugh Masters does not have the details on who is accessing the training, we will write to the committee on that.

Convener, a very clever person has managed to get me some figures, which show that 700 practitioners have completed the stigma module alone.

Would it be appropriate to make some opening remarks before answering your question, convener?

The perinatal mental health clinical network has set out a series of five national pathways, which cover pre-conception advice, psychological support for mild to moderate concerns, specialist assessment for severe and complex needs, emergency assessment for MBU admission, and specialist assessment and intervention for parent-infant relationship difficulties.

We are developing animations to increase the accessibility and awareness of those pathways. Four health boards have fully developed local pathways for perinatal mental health, and a further seven boards have pathways in development. Boards are also developing specific pathways on birth trauma, neonatal loss, anxiety and needle phobia.

I have gone on the record many times saying that we do not want anybody to be waiting, and we are doing all that we possibly can to ensure that we are delivering for people. We will continue to invest in the recovery and renewal phase in relation to bringing waiting lists down, whether they are for child and adolescent mental health services or psychological therapy services.

We have to take the right actions in this area and, in our service delivery, we must make sure that we have a joined-up approach to dealing with perinatal mental health. The work that we are doing with health boards is extremely important, but we need to go much further in ensuring that those on the front line know exactly what services are available and can direct folk to them.

I will give an example from my discussions with the LATNEM—Let’s All Talk North East Mums—women’s group, where there were mixed responses to some of my questions. It is fair to say that some women thought that their GPs were absolutely fantastic at getting it right for them. In other cases, folks were very unhappy indeed with their initial contact with GPs and they were not signposted to the right services. We have work to do to change that. We need to make sure that everything that we are doing across the country is being filtered down to those on the front line and that they know exactly what services women need and are signposting them and referring women to them.

On the development of services, I note that we require not only the acute services that we tend to concentrate on when we talk about waiting times and waiting lists, but also community services. We need to get it right in communities across the country, and that means that the investment that we have put in needs to be spent wisely on developing those community assets. Beyond that, we also need to ensure that our investment in the third sector is there to allow those organisations to play a real part, with their expertise, in helping women and their families.

For example, I met Home-Start Aberdeen on Friday in a constituency capacity, although, as is always the case, we strayed on to some ministerial matters. Those folks have a lot of experience of dealing with women and families, and their experiences and the information that they gather have to lead to the improvements that are required for us to get it right for women and families across the country.

Hugh Masters might have more to say on the subject.

I will let Hugh Masters come in, as he might cover what I was going to say.

Workforce and sustainability are at the centre of all the programme board delivery plans. Last year, the workforce sustainability group was established to explore the issue across all sectors of the perinatal and infant mental health services. NHS Education for Scotland has been expanding training places on commissioned programmes as well as ensuring that additional perinatal and infant mental health training is provided across a range of professions. That investment will result in 51 additional psychological practitioners by the end of 2021-22. There is a huge amount of work going on, not just in relation to training and getting folk in but on training others to recognise exactly what is required in this context.

As the committee knows, I have said that we will look at a new workforce strategy for mental health services within the first half of this session of Parliament. We are well on the way in this area and we can see that in the recruits we are managing to get in.

I will be brief, convener. Ms Mackay’s question was on universality and access to services. As the committee well knows, I have an ambition to ensure that we set high-quality standards across the board in mental health services. I have talked about what we have already done with CAMHS and what we are doing now with psychological therapies.

In perinatal care, we are proposing the introduction of a service specification, which will be absolutely vital in ensuring consistency of care and in promoting joined-up care pathways. While we do that, we will also have national and local conversations with the third sector and people with lived experience to ensure that we get the specification right and can adapt it accordingly. We will carry out that vital work to ensure consistency of care across the board.

That is an extremely important question. The best way to ensure that we get services right for women and families across Scotland is to have complete co-operation and collaboration and a lot of communication between NHS boards, the third sector and the voices of lived experience. Some of the third sector work that I am aware of is crucial; it and the voices of lived experience should be at the heart of developing services at board level. We need communication, collaboration and co-operation to get the services right for women, their babies and their families.

I know that a common theme in the evidence that the committee has taken is concern from mothers that seeking help from perinatal mental health services could result in the loss of their child. To tackle that kind of stigma, it is important that we get our approach right. The forthcoming raising awareness good practice guide will highlight mechanisms to tackle that stigma on multiple levels, because we recognise that we cannot remove stigma by adopting a single approach.

We need to tackle stigma on multiple levels in order to be effective; we need to look at what works for different families, members of different communities and different groups of professionals. The modules on perinatal mental health that Ms Harper talked about include one that is focused on stigma to inform professionals and ensure that a consistent and empathem, or empathic, rather—a word that I should have avoided—approach is adopted.

I should also say, because we have not covered it, that every baby box in Scotland includes a leaflet on perinatal mental health. The leaflet is currently being updated to include the latest information on where to seek help. We are also working with See Me to explore ways to actively promote role models and highlight good practice around stigma reduction and raising awareness about perinatal and infant mental health. In February 2021, we ran a national campaign, called wellbeing for wee ones, that was aimed at increasing awareness and reducing stigma around infant mental health.

Stigma is, without doubt, an area in which we need to do much more work. We need to co-operate in order to ensure that we reduce stigma and do all that we can in that sphere. We also need the general public to recognise that what some folk go through could happen to anyone and that, as a society, we need to do all that we can to help women, babies and their families get through difficult periods and, we hope, reach a brighter future.