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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 May 2025
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Displaying 981 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

You have made it very clear that it will not be easy to absorb this into budgets and that staffing cannot just be magicked up but takes time to develop, which may cause consequences elsewhere—I get that. You have talked about a cost increase of 42 per cent, although I think it may be 50 per cent overall, compared with what was in the original financial memorandum. The total budget is still only £18 million out of a £10 billion budget for local government, so it should not be impossible to absorb that. Also, there should be significant longer-term benefits from spending to save, although we never quite realise those because we never fully disinvest from other areas. I get all of that.

However, I am not clear about what you want to be done. You are in favour of the bill but you are worried that, once we get to stage 2, there will be a momentum and it will just happen. What precisely do you want the Government and the committee to do about that? I am not clear on that. You have put up the warning signs, but, if we are not to end up with a problem later, what precisely do we need to do?

I do not know whether Ben Farrugia or Jillian Gibson wants to start.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

It does.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

As that second lot of questions was rather less enthusiastically greeted, convener, I will stop there.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

I will follow up on what Kate Wallace said. You found that your arguments with the Government did not gain much traction. Can you give us an indication of what the arguments are and why they are not gaining traction?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

I want to ask about secure accommodation and the arrangements for those who are there on welfare grounds and those who are there on offence grounds. What needs to be done to bring confidence that those arrangements are safe and secure, particularly for those who are in secure accommodation on welfare grounds?

09:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

Are your concerns so significant that you would not be in favour of that transfer? Do you think that separate provision needs to be made, or do you think that it can be managed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

Marsha Scott, do you want to come in? I noticed that you were nodding.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

I would like to follow up with some rather more detailed questions on the minutiae. First, are the costings for solicitors for children who have been arrested and taken into police custody reasonably accurate? Does anybody want to comment on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

The updated costings in the bill now place the cost of funding secure accommodation places for children on remand on central Government rather than on local authorities. What assessment has been done of that? Are the costings accurate enough?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Willie Rennie

Right—that is fine. [Laughter.]

Are the costings for the secure accommodation aspect reasonably well worked out? Are there any comments on that?