Chamber and committees

What struck me when I met some of the young people involved in the school-college partnership was the fact that they still hated going to school and were ready for college. Given your expertise, what is your view on that? One of them told me that they would go to school only because they were forced to, and that they were still completely disconnected from the school setting. They felt as though they were being told, “Until you’re 16, we can’t do anything with you, except that you can go to college and do some of the things that you want to do now.” What reforms should be made in that regard?

Do you have the same model?

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today.

I will carry on some of the conversation that Neil Cowie started in relation to post-16 learning and the pre-16 opportunity. How can schools and colleges further develop their relationships in order to improve effectiveness and those partnerships? I recently visited Barnardo’s Works here in the capital, which I know has been working with Edinburgh College, especially around 14 and 15-year-old pupils who are not going to school and are disengaged from the school system, like the pupils Neil Cowie mentioned. How can those relationships be improved in terms of both pre-16 and post-16 education?

I will bring in Audrey Cumberford, as I mentioned Edinburgh College.

We need to go back to the basics. The health and wellbeing census was organised and promoted to councils by the Scottish Government, although half of councils said that they would not participate in it. The results of the survey were given to the Government, which has collated the data. What questions has the cabinet secretary asked about why that data has been offered to researchers? What breaches of confidence in relation to freedom of information have there been? A number of members have asked about that, but they have not had a clear answer. Although she has said that she has now suspended that data collection and is investigating the matter, what independent investigation of the whole process will take place?

I welcome this debate, which is being held in Government time, and I will take the opportunity to do something that is unusual when debating education—I can see smiles from the Labour benches—and that is to thank the organisations that have provided helpful briefings ahead of the debate.

We all agree that schools can help to play a crucial role in addressing child poverty. Although they cannot single-handedly solve child poverty, and should never be expected to, schools help to mitigate some of its impacts, to reduce household costs, to boost family incomes and to support children on lower incomes to learn, thrive and achieve their potential.

Much of the Government motion relates to the social security budget. The Scottish Conservatives have acknowledged and welcomed some of the progress that has been made, and we have supported many of the policies that have been taken forward by ministers, from the child payment and free school meals to the development of after-school clubs, which is another area on which we would like to see more progress.

I note the concerns from organisations that are disappointed that the pledge to provide universal free school meals for primary pupils has not been fulfilled to date. However, in the briefings, every organisation working on child poverty reduction measures and putting support in place has recognised that it is abundantly clear that we need to be able to see better delivery of more flexible childcare for parents so that they can access training opportunities or get into employment. My colleague Roz McCall has consistently raised our concerns around early years and childcare provision, as it is clear that there remains significant disparity in provision across the country. That often risks deepening inequalities and limiting parental employment opportunities and has a long-term consequence for children’s development and educational outcomes.

Many of the conversations that I have had with teachers and unions since taking up the role of shadow education secretary have focused on violence and disruptive behaviour in schools. They have also focused on the need for ministers to act and provide clear direction to restore discipline in schools, and to make sure that every classroom, wherever it might be in Scotland, is a safe learning environment for all pupils and teachers. That is why last week the Scottish Conservatives again brought forward a debate to demand action and why this week I am concerned to see that the issue is leading to teachers in East Dunbartonshire planning industrial action over the behaviour of pupils in the area. It is not the first time that school staff in Scotland have taken such a step; teachers at a school in Glasgow took strike action in 2022 over “violent and abusive” pupil behaviour. A 2024 survey of staff in Aberdeen found that many had experienced violence and more than a third had been physically assaulted. The Scottish Conservatives have brought forward debates on the issue and the Government has taken forward work on it, but it is the most pressing issue for teachers. I would welcome a full debate in Government time on how ministers plan to address the situation in our classrooms.

The teachers at Kirkintilloch high school say that there are no consequences for abusive and violent behaviour, which is why they are striking. We should go to that school and ask why it is not the case that every local authority is working together on a national plan to end violence and misbehaviour in school. That is the challenge that I set to the Scottish Government. It is not okay to say that things are okay in one school in one council area. Every school should be ending such behaviour, and we need to make sure that that happens.

I absolutely agree. The issue transcends the debate and affects the whole pupil population. That is why, for some time and especially following the pandemic, teachers have been expressing the fact that there have been behavioural changes. Bad behaviour from all pupils is brought into the classroom and there has been a lack of action to address that. Teachers at Kirkintilloch high school claim that pupils face “no consequences” for abusive or violent behaviour. Staff say that they have repeatedly raised concerns with management but have been “gaslit”, including by being told that their lessons were not exciting enough. From today, those teachers will refuse to cover classes and will not go on trips or support activities, although the action will stop short of a strike.

Teachers and unions are losing confidence in the ability of ministers to provide leadership on this critical issue. The cabinet secretary has mentioned several times her visits to schools, and I genuinely hope that she will make her next visit to Kirkintilloch high school to listen to those concerns and see how the Government’s relationships and behaviour in schools action plan will actually be delivered across all local authorities. We need that national leadership to make sure that the issue is addressed urgently.

Many organisations that work with care-experienced young people and young carers have identified specific problems that they face in maintaining their learning, from acknowledging specific personal situations to identifying the holistic support that they require. That is why our amendment looks towards what we would like to happen.

I believe that there is a growing consensus across the Parliament that young people who live in deprived areas are more likely to play a caring and support role for a loved one. Children who live in families that have at least one disabled member are more likely to be in poverty than children in families with no disabled member, and research tells us that young carers are more common in families that have an unemployed adult or are on a low income. That is why, as we call for in our amendment, we want ministers to undertake a review of policies to improve the identification of and support for care experienced and young carer pupils in schools, ensuring that they receive the necessary assistance to succeed in education.

Since I was elected, I have attended the young carers festival on many occasions, and heard at first hand what young carers would like. There is a blueprint, I think, to transform the options that are available to young carers that very much aligns with the work that is being undertaken through the Promise, as we have discussed with the responsible minister. I hope that the debate will see progress on that.

The debate is welcome, but ministers have sidestepped the most pressing issue that teachers and pupils currently raise, which is violence and discipline. There must be real action, which is why my amendment expresses concern over the rising level of violence in schools, which negatively impacts both attainment and wellbeing and calls on the Scottish Government to provide greater support for teachers and local authorities to tackle the issue.

I move amendment S6M-16330.4, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert:

“acknowledges that more than a quarter of children in Scotland live in poverty; recognises that, while investment in tackling child poverty through education is important, it must be accompanied by a focus on improving educational standards; notes that, while the Scottish Government has spent £1 billion on early years and childcare, there remains a significant disparity in the availability of early years provision across Scotland, which risks deepening inequalities and limiting parental employment opportunities, and has long-term consequences for children’s development and educational outcomes; further notes with concern that education in Scotland has gone backwards in Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) international rankings; acknowledges that the attainment gap in primary pupils’ reading, writing, literacy and numeracy remains similar to pre-COVID-19-pandemic levels and has failed to close; regrets that the pledge to provide universal free school meals for primary pupils has not been fulfilled; expresses concern over the rising level of violence in schools, which negatively impacts both attainment and wellbeing; calls on the Scottish Government to provide greater support for teachers and local authorities to tackle this issue; further calls for a review of policies to improve the identification of and support for care experienced and young carer pupils in schools, ensuring that they receive the necessary assistance to succeed in education, and believes that the Scottish Government’s main priority should be ensuring that every child, no matter their background, has the best start in life.”

A high number of military families have children in the independent school sector in Scotland. What discussions has the Scottish Government had on the impact of the UK Government’s introduction of VAT on school fees, and on this week’s news that the UK Government will also put VAT on school meals for those children?

I recently visited Craiglockhart primary school to see its free school library, which operates outside the school, 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, where children can help themselves to books, parents can give used books and the whole school community can access them. It is a great example of a children’s free library.

Has the cabinet secretary had any engagement with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to make sure that every primary school across Scotland could have one of those built outside their school?

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the education secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding action to improve access to books for, and encourage reading by, children and young people. (S6O-04275)