I agree. I am just thinking about all the buildings that I see around Edinburgh that have gutters that disappear under the ground. I am not sure whether anyone knows where they are connected into.

Thank you.

Do members have any more questions on this section before we move on to the next bit? Monica, I think that you had a question on project delivery. Are you happy that it has been answered?

Welcome back. Item 5 is an evidence session with Consumer Scotland as part of our stage 1 scrutiny of the Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill. I am pleased to welcome back Tracey Reilly, head of policy and markets for Consumer Scotland, and Fraser Stewart, its research manager. I thank them for providing a written submission to the committee. I will start off with a couple of questions on that. Let us see whether I have got them right.

The witnesses said in their submission that consumers have bought into the bill’s requirement for circular measures but that there is some confusion between, or dubiety about, consumption and sustainability. Does the bill deal with those two things, which might butt up against each other a bit?

Fraser Stewart, do you want to come in briefly on that?

Okay. Douglas will be first, then Jim.

In fairness to other members of the committee, there are great places outside of Ben Macpherson’s constituency that do recycling.

As there are no other questions from members, I will ask one. As advocates on behalf of consumers and representing consumer interests, in your written evidence you said:

“It would be beneficial for strategies to be aligned as much as possible with strategies from other UK nations”.

One of the things that we have to understand is whether the bill will create problems for the United Kingdom internal market and what would happen if it does. What are your views? Is it all clear cut and simple, with no conflict, or are there potential areas that we should be looking at?

Thank you, minister. I will start the questions.

I think that we produce about 1.18TWh of heat through heat networks. What are the targets to get us to the 2035 target of 7TWh?

The last time I checked, more than 2,000 people were waiting for orthopaedic operations in the Highlands. A thousand of them are not suitable because they are too complex to go into the national treatment centre. Hospital operating theatres have been closed to save money and beds are not available for the 20 orthopaedic surgeons who are sitting around in Raigmore hospital and want to do operations. What is the cabinet secretary’s message to Highland patients?

There is a very long answer to that but, in very simple terms, we considered the internal ferries in Orkney, and I visited and saw some of them. They are beyond their lifespan at the moment, and it is quite clear that the Government needs to take positive action in conjunction with the local councils to make sure that islands are not left without ferries. [Interruption.]

I am sorry, but I am going to have to leave it there. The Scottish Government’s response to our report said that a revised draft of the consultation that was published in December 2022 would be published later this year. It is not clear to me when the other intended sections of the islands connectivity plan, including community needs assessments and the low-carbon plan, will be finalised.

The question is, when will the final comprehensive islands connectivity plan be published? Will it be published in advance of the next Clyde and Hebrides ferries contract? It needs to be. We sought commitments that it will include elements that the committee identified as essential to an effective plan. Some of those have been accepted by the Government.

I am running short of time, Presiding Officer, so I will move to the key issues and cut this down as much as possible. We also made recommendations that future ferry services need to be more accountable and that we need better measurements of performance and more transparent working by operators. We did not have much confidence that the statistics reflected the performance, so those need to be changed.

We welcome the Scottish Government’s commitment to a fleet with an average age of 15 years, but we made it clear that we need more ferries than we have at the moment. That is long-term strategic planning. To deliver that we will need a rolling vessel-replacement programme and a maintenance and upgrade programme for ports and harbours. There is a lot to do, and rather than keep going on, because I am sure that all members in the chamber have read our excellent report, I will say that the Scottish Government needs to listen carefully to what the committee has said, and it needs to implement the recommendations of the plan, be decisive and make clear decisions, because allowing the status quo to continue is unacceptable to the people of Scotland and to the committee.

I move,

That the Parliament notes the conclusions and recommendations contained in the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee’s 11th Report, 2023 (Session 6), A Modern and Sustainable Ferry Service for Scotland (SP Paper 417).