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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 7218 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Edward Mountain

I am sorry, Ms Harper, but I took quite a long intervention from you earlier.

I have explained that medicated grit cannot be used or acquired without significant controls. I accept that it might be said that it could be used, but I do not think that things should go any further than that.

I believe that Mr Smyth’s amendments 138 and 139 are too restrictive and prescriptive. How should the taking or killing of wild birds be carried out

“prioritising methods with the least negative animal welfare impact”?

Does that mean shooting them? Does it mean trapping animals? Obviously, that would not be birds, because they cannot be trapped except in live traps, so they cannot be killed. We have established ways of trapping animals and killing birds, which in most cases involves a shotgun or a rifle. I do not know how to make things more highly controlled than that. People could be put through shooting tests to see whether they can point a rifle in the right direction. However, every time a person fires a rifle or a shotgun, they aim to kill the thing that they are firing at; they do not aim to make it suffer. Therefore, I am not sure how amendment 138 would help.

Amendment 139 begs the question how much we want to micromanage the control of predators. Do we want to suggest how and when to do that? Do we want to suggest that people can only put a trap in a ditch in a box, as covered by the spring trap legislation, and that that can be done only at a certain time of year on a particular moor or bit of ground that is subject to a management plan? I simply do not see how that would work.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Edward Mountain

In most cases, the reason why a predator is being controlled is to allow other species to flourish. I am not sure whether Mr Smyth is suggesting through his amendment that people should trap an animal and release it somewhere else. I fear that taking an animal from one location to another would require a licence. Is Mr Smyth suggesting licensing the moving of predator species from one place to another? I am not sure whether that is what the minister would like to see or whether that is entirely reasonable.

On that note, I am happy to conclude my remarks, convener.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Edward Mountain

I understand the time pressures, but I have a committee meeting that I need to prepare for, as I got the committee meeting papers at 5 minutes to 8 last night, I think. Extending this session will jeopardise my position as convener of another committee and my ability to speak to my amendments, so I respectfully ask that you reconsider that or shorten the session by a bit.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

I will not move amendment 4 on the basis of my earlier explanation.

Amendment 4 not moved.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

I will not move amendment 5 for the reasons that I gave earlier.

Amendment 5 not moved.

Section 2 agreed to.

After section 2

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

I accept that you have never set a snare in your life—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

As a farmer, I have set snares, but I do not currently do so, because I have not done the course—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

—and because I am in this place. My point is that a lot of farmers do it.

Finally, please do not underestimate those people who take responsibility for managing wildlife in the countryside. They are not barbarians, and they do not want to cause suffering. They just want to get on with their job in the most efficient way possible and manage the environment, and I think that it is wrong to take this tool out of their box.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

Convener, I am sure that you would like me to go through the chair.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Edward Mountain

I have found the debate interesting. I am slightly concerned that the minister has suggested that amendment 177 should not be agreed to on the basis that it talks about something that is already illegal and that she is talking about the need for what is in the bill to remain there because of future proofing. That seems to suggest that the minister will consider at some stage allowing traps to kill birds. If that is the intention, I am desperately against it. Therefore, I am sure that, on reflection, the minister will think that amendment 177 is sensible, because it does not even mention the killing of birds with a trap, so no future proofing is required.