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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 6300 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Welcome back. Our next item of business is an evidence session?on environmental governance in Scotland. In June last year, the Scottish Government published its report on the effectiveness of environmental governance arrangements, as required by section 41 of the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021. The committee has since agreed to carry out a short assessment of the state of environmental governance in Scotland.

This morning, we will hear from a panel of environmental stakeholders and law practitioners on the Scottish Government’s report and environmental governance in Scotland more broadly. I am pleased to welcome Lloyd Austin, convener of the governance group, Scottish Environment LINK; Dr Shivali Fifield, chief officer, Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland; Professor Sarah Hendry, Dundee law school, University of Dundee; Bridget Marshall, chief officer, Scottish Environment Protection Agency; Professor Simon Parsons, director of environment, planning and assurance, Scottish Water; and, joining us remotely, Jamie Whittle, convener of the environmental law sub-committee, Law Society of Scotland.

Thank you for joining us today. We have an hour and a bit for this session. Before we move to questions from committee members, for fear of upsetting you all, I point out that, because it is quite a large panel, you might not get to answer every question. I invite committee members to target their questions at the people from whom they want answers.

However, I will give everyone a chance to answer the first question, because it is my question. Please do not overegg the response, but it is fair to say that concerns have been raised by stakeholders about how the Scottish Government approached the 2023 environmental governance review, which was a requirement of the 2021 act. Has the Scottish Government provided enough detail in the review? If not, what has it not provided detail on?

Lloyd, I will start with you and will come to Jamie Whittle last. By the way, if Lloyd gives all the answers on the points that you want to raise, you can just say, “Lloyd is correct.”

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

I accept that. I am asking how other local transport authorities will be able to take the plan forward if you are not giving them any money.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Jamie Whittle, are you going to break ranks and say that the Government’s review is brilliant?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

I am sorry, deputy convener, but Sarah Hendry is keen to come in on that point, as is Lloyd Austin. I have opened a floodgate, but Sarah Hendry has been waiting patiently.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2024 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. We have received formal apologies from Monica Lennon, and I am pleased to welcome Sarah Boyack, who is attending the meeting as the Scottish Labour substitute.

Under our first agenda item, I invite Sarah Boyack to declare any relevant interests in relation to the committee and the evidence session.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

I slipped past the deputy convener, who has another question. Back to you, Ben.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Shivali Fifield and Lloyd Austin would like to come in on that, if you are happy for them to do so and see where it goes, Mark.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Shivali, you made some comments about ESS. I am not going to defend it; I am just going to ask a question of you. It is a relatively new organisation that is bedding in, finding its feet and trying to establish a pattern of work. We have had evidence from it in the committee, and we see—I think this is the right way to put it—a trend. You were a little bit condemnatory. Do you think that it is a little bit unfair to judge it at the moment as it finds its feet?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Okay. It appears that I am not going to get much further on the issue of money or on that issue, so I will bring in Jackie Dunbar to ask the next question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Edward Mountain

Thank you for confirming that. What has it proven? What has come of it?