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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 January 2026
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Displaying 6583 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Perhaps we should give Joel Paterson a chance to consider that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

When you answer that, could you give us a bit of a steer on crofting? That is one of the issues that I do not understand. The common grazings might belong to a group of people, some of whom might no longer have anything to do with crofting. They might simply have a share in it. To whom do the carbon rights belong in that situation? Do they belong to the landowner or the common grazings committee? Perhaps you could widen out the question and give an answer on all of those aspects.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Andy Wightman is wrong when he says that you are the third-biggest landowner in Scotland.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

They could sell credits on 200,000 hectares of land, which would be only a third of what is held. I find it difficult that land that is owned by the people of Scotland could be traded for carbon credits, given that the market is so risky, but credits on a third of that land—200,000 hectares—would probably allow those organisations to fund all the Government’s tree-planting targets. Would that be a good deal?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Okay. I have a final question. Living in the Highlands, I have heard huge stories about remote landlords being what we want to get rid of. I suggest that the carbon market has probably made some of the landlords more remote. For example, BrewDog owns Kinrara; abrdn—Standard Life—owns Far Ralia; and Glen Dye is owned by Aviva and Par Equity. How do I contact the people who are investing in the natural capital of Scotland? Where can I ring abrdn to find out who is looking after Far Ralia? That will impact on local communities. Are those landlords not remote? That is a rhetorical question; who would like to answer it?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I do not know about that. At Kinrara, for example, there were five employees; now there are zero. I am just trying to work out what the effects will be. Does anyone want to say a positive thing—for example, that the carbon market will make things more local and will bring the land back to local people?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Welcome back to the meeting and our second panel of witnesses on natural capital.

I welcome Dr Naomi Beingessner—did I say that right?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I have a question before I bring in Olly Hughes, who has raised his hand. Perhaps he could help me to understand this.

I appreciate that it is a few years since I was a surveyor, but upland hill land used to price at about £1,500 an acre if the person was lucky and it had planting potential. Two years ago, I heard prices of £14,000 to £20,000 an acre—perhaps Gresham House was paying less or perhaps it was paying more than that. However, I hear that the market has dropped off. To put that into context, we are probably now talking about a maximum of £4,500 to £5,000 an acre for grade 2 arable dirt. There was a huge bubble. Will you get 5 per cent on £14,000 an acre—sorry, per hectare, I should say—Olly?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Okay. I will let Monica Lennon come in briefly. I ask her to target her question to one person, as I am conscious of the timings.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I have a final question before we leave this issue. Stuart Greenwood, you mentioned contracts of 50 years and 99 years. Is there any business in the world that knows where it is going to be in 10 years’ time, let alone in 99 years’ time? I ask the question genuinely. You might take money now for something that involves a 99-year obligation, but you do not know what the situation will be in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years’ time. Taking that money completely sterilises the land for that period, because you have a 99-year obligation. How can anyone apart from a massive pension fund be in a position to take that risk?