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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 21 September 2025
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Displaying 6078 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Good morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting in 2024 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. The first item on the agenda is consideration of whether to take items 5, 6 and 7 in private. Item 5 is consideration of the evidence that we will hear today on the United Kingdom Automated Vehicles Bill; item 6 is to consider the evidence that we will hear today on Scotland’s railways; and item 7 is to consider correspondence relating to the appointments to the Scottish Land Commission. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Our next item of business is an evidence session with the Scottish Government on the UK Automated Vehicles Bill.

The bill implements the recommendations of a joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission on the regulation of automated vehicles. On 20 December, the Scottish Government lodged a legislative consent memorandum that reserved its position on whether the Scottish Parliament’s consent should be given. On 29 February, a supplementary memorandum was lodged, which recommended consent to all the provisions outlined in the LCM, other than clause 50. I note for the record that there seems to be a difference of view between the Scottish and UK Governments about whether certain clauses require legislative consent and that clause 50 is one of those.

Our committee has been designated lead committee for scrutiny of the LCM. In the limited time that is available to report, we are having this one evidence session with the Scottish Government. We have also had written evidence from the Confederation of Passenger Transport.

I am pleased to welcome Fiona Hyslop, the Cabinet secretary for Transport. She is joined today by Liana Waclawski, a Scottish Government lawyer; Jim Wilson, the licensing team leader for the Scottish Government; Oi Hang Chu, the UK bill and legislative consent manager for Transport Scotland; and George Henry, the operational manager for road safety policy and education for Transport Scotland. Thank you all for joining us today.

Cabinet secretary, I will give you the opportunity to make a brief opening statement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

No, I understand that if you have one vehicle that is designed to be used across the United Kingdom and it an offence is committed because of some fault in the software, the responsibility cannot lie with the person who is nominally in charge of the vehicle but not driving it at the time.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

We could get into the inadequacies of framework legislation if you like, but I trod on George’s toes, as it were, when he was speaking. Sorry, George—do you want to complete what you were saying?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

We are running short of time, but I am going to give Mark Ruskell a short question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Thanks, Monica. I call Ben Macpherson, to be followed by Bob Doris.

09:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

That is definitely short enough for me. I think I am with Jim Wilson; I am a bit concerned about the whole thing, anyway.

I am looking around the room but it does not look as though there are any further questions. I have two questions for you, cabinet secretary. You said that the Scottish Law Commission had been involved from start to finish. Does it have a view on clause 50, if it has been involved?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I understand that. What do they think about this in Wales? Are the Welsh signing up to it?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Yes—that is a dangerous thing to do, cabinet secretary. I am trying to find out whether other people share the Scottish Government’s concerns, or they are just the Scottish Government’s concerns.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Automated Vehicles Bill

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Edward Mountain

We must write a report by next week. Things are moving that quickly, so a quick response on that and the correspondence would be helpful.