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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 May 2025
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Displaying 4955 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

Hold on, minister—I want to understand the approach. It is fine to say that, but if I operated a huge company with warehouses all over the world, and decided that I could not sell, in Scotland, something that I was not allowed to dispose of in Scotland, I might be able to sell it somewhere else. I could put it on one of my hundreds of big trucks and send it somewhere else in the world to sell. Surely that is the simple answer. What can you do about that? I do not see that you can do anything.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

That was almost two questions in one. Sarah, you can have another question, if you are quick.

11:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

We are nearly at the end of our time. I know that committee members are looking at me, and I am going to look down at my notes so that they do not make grumpy faces at me.

Minister, we are doing a report on the bill, and when the policy memorandum was published, we were told that we would get the route map in 2023. We have a deadline of the middle of January for producing our report, but I do not believe that we will be in a position to meet that deadline without seeing the route map. I will wait to hear the committee’s views on that. That is a gentle reminder—could one be given more gently than that?—that you need to get it to us as soon as possible.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

Our next agenda item is an evidence-taking session on an order subject to the negative procedure, which means that it will come into force unless the Parliament agrees to a motion to annul it.

Yesterday, Murdo Fraser lodged a motion to recommend annulling the order. Before we formally debate that, I thought that it might be helpful to have a brief evidence session with the minister and her officials, which will give us the opportunity to ask questions and seek clarification.

I welcome back Lorna Slater, the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity; Ailsa Heine, a solicitor in the Scottish Government; and Janet McVea, head of Zero Waste Scotland. The minister will make a brief opening statement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

At this point, I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a landowner and have been subjected to fly-tipping, as I guess most landowners in Scotland have.

During the evidence session on the Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill, we heard that £500 would barely scratch the surface of the costs of clearing things up. You have said that this is covered by legislation. Is there no way that the fine could be higher?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

Say that again, Bob.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

We will report on the outcome of the instrument in due course and I invite the committee to delegate authority to me as convener to finalise that report for publication. Is the committee happy to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

Okay, but I just remember when a deep freeze full of food appeared, along with its wrappings and the name of the person who had bought it. No one was going to impose a fine for that for the simple reason that they did not know who put it there. A fine is fairly meaningless if it requires evidence of who put it there, because the person who threw it away was probably not the person whose deep freeze it was. It might have been a white van man.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

I still do not understand how you can force somebody to do what you specify.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Edward Mountain

Thank you. As I do not see anyone wanting to ask any more questions, that concludes our evidence-taking session on the instrument.

Item 4 is the formal debate on motion S6M-11534, in the name of Murdo Fraser, calling on the committee to recommend to the Scottish Parliament that the Fly-tipping (Fixed Penalty) (Scotland) Order 2023 (2023/335) be annulled.

Now, Murdo, I am going to ask you at the outset whether you are going to move or not move the motion. If you do not move it, you will not be able to speak to it. Would you like to move the motion?