Chamber and committees

You are almost getting the pen launched at you.

We have one more question, which will come from Monica Lennon. Whoever puts their hand up first can answer it.

You ambushed me, David—I said there should be one answer and you supplied a second.

Before this session, the Parliament’s participation and communities team warned me that I was not going to get away with not being asked a question. I am not going to give you the chance to ask me a question—politicians never let other people ask questions; they work out the question they want to answer and then give that answer—but I guess that the question that you would have wanted to ask me is, what are we going to do with this report now that we have got it? The committee will decide after this meeting what we are going to do, but I can tell you some of the things that we will be doing. For example, the Climate Change Committee will appear before the committee next week, and I am sure that your report and some of the questions that are raised by it will inform our views and our questions to it. Further, we are about to deal with stage 2 of the Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill, and I am sure that the report will prompt some of the discussions that go on at that point. We constantly have ministers in here from various portfolios, and we will ask them questions informed by our reading of the report.

At the moment, there is a process going on in the Parliament in which Government policies are reviewed to see how they contribute to reaching net zero targets. Conveners and committees are looking at ways to make sure that, when bills and policies are published, we understand whether they not only contribute to achieving the net zero goal but are getting the right messages out, and whether there is the correct funding within the bills. I think that the report will help us with that process.

When you were planning your ambush, David, the deputy convener ambushed me and said that we could write to the minister—subject to the committee’s approval, because I cannot do anything as a convener of a committee without the committee’s approval—and ask for a written response to your recommendations, which we could then share with you. I am not seeing any dissent from committee members on that point, so I hope that we can agree on that afterwards.

I stress that this has been a committee-driven process; it is not being driven by the Government. Karen Shakespeare suggested things that the Government could do. I can say that, if I were the convener of the Government, I am sure that we could get a lot done, but I am the convener of the committee, so we will have to simply take your points to the Government.

I thank and congratulate you for all the work that you have put in, because there was a lot of work. This is your Parliament and we are here to make sure that what the people want is delivered by the Parliament. As a committee, we are extremely grateful for all that you have done and for all the information that you have given us. I cannot reiterate my thanks enough.

We are now going to have to go into private session to see whether we can agree some of the things that I have just talked about and to review the evidence that we have heard. We will be in touch to keep you updated and point out things that have come about as a result of your participation in this deliberative democracy.

We will now move into private session.

Our next agenda item is an evidence session on natural capital finance in Scotland. On our first panel, I am pleased to welcome Stuart Greenwood, who is a partner in Shepherd and Wedderburn LLP’s rural property and business team; Joel Paterson, who is the head of natural capital in Scotland at Strutt & Parker; Stephen Young, who is director of policy at Scottish Land & Estates; and Olly Hughes, who is managing director of forestry at Gresham House. Olly, thank you for agreeing to join us at slightly the last minute.

It will be an interesting session, and I know that members will have lots of questions. The temptation for witnesses is to want to answer every single question. As nice as that might be for you, it is not possible for me because it would mean that I cut out some of the committee members, which would cause a disagreement afterwards that I would have to resolve. If you agree with what somebody said, you do not need to say any more, but, if you want to come in, try to catch my eye or the member’s eye and we will bring you in, and I will try not to cut you off.

Before we go into the session, I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, in that I am a member of a family farming partnership. We farm 500 acres of land that I own in Speyside, and we are tenant farmers of another 500 acres in Speyside. I can say quite categorically at this stage that I have not invested in natural capital, because I do not understand it. Maybe all will become clearer today.

The first questions are from Bob Doris.

Douglas Lumsden has some questions.

It sounds a bit like a Ponzi scheme to me, but maybe I have it wrong.

The deputy convener is next. You are up, Ben.

Bob Doris has a quick question.

I have a few quick-fire questions, because we are very nearly at the end of our session. The first question is for Olly Hughes. You said that Gresham House has managed land. It also owns land, does it not? If so, how much land does it own?

Okay. If you could perhaps let us know how much land Gresham House owns, that would be useful.

I am a little concerned. We have talked about releasing money by selling things into the future. To me, the risk seems unquantifiable for 99 years and for 50 years. Farmers may well need those carbon credits to be able to continue to farm, because one thing is for sure: industries will force down to the primary producer their obligations to reach net zero. There is a huge risk.

Forestry and Land Scotland and NatureScot have no risk. Between them, they own 670,000 hectares of Scotland. Should they trade all their credits? Would that be your advice to them?

Would you advise it to do that, Joel Paterson, if you were trading for it?