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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 December 2025
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Displaying 6583 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

I will bring in Monica Lennon. I am sorry, Monica, but, due to pressures of time, you get one question and one question only.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

I will come in briefly as I am not understanding something. I think that the suggestion is that the issuing of the permit may have been reckless because it was not properly considered, unless I have got that wrong. Kevin, is that what you are asking about?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

I think that in our first evidence session we heard that an absolute protection against individual workers was wanted and that only companies should hold responsibility. We are getting the impression from today’s panel that that is not a sensible way forward.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Our second item of business is an evidence session on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill. We are gathering evidence on the general principles of the bill before we report to the Parliament at stage 1. The Parliament has not yet set a stage 1 deadline.

Today, we will take evidence from two panels of witnesses, and these will be our fourth and fifth evidence sessions on the bill. I welcome our first panel: Dr Clare Frances Moran, lecturer and co-director of the Aberdeen centre for constitutional and public international law at the University of Aberdeen; Murdo MacLeod KC; Rachael Weir, head of policy and engagement at the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service; and Iain Batho, head of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service’s wildlife and environmental crime unit. I thank the witnesses for attending the meeting.

My first questions are a gentle warmer into the bank to get you into the swing of answering questions. Do you agree with how ecocide is defined in the bill, or do you have suggestions for how the definition could be strengthened? Does the bill target the appropriate level and type of environmental harm? Does it deal with the issue of future challenges in interpreting the definitions?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

I will bring in the deputy convener, Michael Matheson.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Could you give one example of an event that has taken place since 2014 where the provisions in the bill would have been more appropriate than the legislation that we have already?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

I know that Parliament thinks carefully about enacting new legislation. Clare Frances Moran, do you want to say anything on this?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

That is interesting—thank you.

Mark Ruskell has the next questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

It sounds as though there is a back-door escape route here.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Edward Mountain

Sorry, can I just push a wee bit on this, just so I understand it? I will give an example. Let us say that an aquaculture company wants to use a chemical that has been approved by the veterinary medicines directorate to be used to kill sea lice in salmon pens. The company applies to use it, and uses it as per the permit that is issued by SEPA for an on-use licence for the on-use use of the chemical that has been approved by the veterinary medicines directorate. However, all the starfish, prawns, lobsters and crabs in the area are killed because they are affected by the chemical. Who becomes liable for that? You are sort of saying that no one is liable because if something has been done under permit, everything is hunky-dory. However, in my example, everyone knows that that is what the effect of that chemical has been. I am trying to give you a real example, which, to my mind, raises questions. It seems to me that if the chemical has killed off a substantial number of sea creatures, that could be ecocide in the locality concerned. Does anyone want to pass comment on that? Would you prefer to follow it up in correspondence? Murdo, do you want to comment?