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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 January 2026
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Displaying 6747 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I understand that it might be formulaic and interpreted, but I am looking for actual time and costs. You are proposing to impose a cost on people and I am trying to understand whether you understand what that cost will be.

09:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

It would be useful to understand what you believe the cost of a management plan is.

David, you have done management plans. I think that some of them have worked and some have not: some have upset the community and some have not. How much do they cost to produce for 1,000 hectares?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

No, sorry, I asked you a specific question and I am trying to get a specific answer. If you are not in a position to give me the answer, I am very happy to take a letter to the committee afterwards. From my point of view, I am trying to identify the costs of producing the plans. We have heard that it is £75,000 from, I think, Moray Estates, and a reasonable figure of £10,000 from somebody else. I am interested to know what you think those plans would cost, because I think that that burden is interesting.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

With respect, I take the point that you have made. I have read the John Muir Trust accounts and seen where it is financially, so I understand some of the costs. I am just trying to identify them. Bob Doris, do you want to come in on that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you for that one reason.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Okay. Kevin Stewart has a question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

We have about 15 minutes of this session left. Time is always the enemy of the committee, so if we have short answers and short questions, I will be able to get in all the committee members who want to ask questions and not make enemies of them, too. I will just keep time as my enemy.

The next question comes from the deputy convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

We are up against the clock, but I will bring in Rhoda Grant.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I am going to move on to more open ground and leave trees—which, thankfully, do not cover all of Scotland, yet.

On land management plans, I have a question for Sandra Holmes. Finlay Clark made the point that, sometimes, landowners might not have a controlling interest in the land that they manage—that is, there might be other interests, such as crofting or agricultural tenancies. Would it be appropriate for the land manager to draw up a land management plan if he or she could not affect the outcomes? I am thinking of HIE and its involvement in crofting estates. Although it might want to do something, crofting law still dictates what can and cannot be done.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I understand that, but it is sometimes quite difficult to get the various parties to agree—the landowner is only a vehicle. One might think of the spaceport that is being developed in Caithness, and whether all the crofters agree with that. Drawing up a land management plan for that estate—I think that it is the Hope and Melness estate—might be quite difficult, because the crofters there do not agree.

My next question is on the Land Commission’s recommendation that the size threshold for having a land management plan be reduced from 3,000 to 1,000 hectares. Sandra and Finlay, do you agree with that? If we were talking about a 1,000-hectare mixed-ownership estate, including tenancies of some description, what would be the actual cost of producing that land management plan? Moray Estates has told us that it would cost £75,000—I think that that was in relation to the Tornagrain investment—while others have said that the cost would be somewhere between £5,000 and £10,000. It could be more. What do you think it would cost, Sandra, given that all HIE personnel who might be contracted to drawing up the plan would be paid in full for their time?