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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 6348 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Abstained, right. Shivali?

I cannot hear you, sorry—you dropped off, for some reason. Try it again.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I think that that is a yes in principle. That was a very long answer to a yes or no question.

Valerie, see if you can give me a yes or no answer, please.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

It does a wee bit, but it also feeds into Kevin Stewart’s point that, if the permits had been properly issued in the first place, or reviewed in line with current changes, that situation would not have arisen.

I will move straight on because many other committee members want to come in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

They are all looking away.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Okay. I come back to Sarah Boyack.

I note that our time is technically up, and we have another panel after this one, so you will have to be really sharp and snappy in your answers. I am sorry if that does not give you a chance to explain everything—that is just the timescale that we have. We have a stage 3 debate in the chamber this afternoon, so I do not want to run on too late.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Does anyone think that the penalties are too strong, or do you all think that prison for 20 years is the right place to be for somebody who commits ecocide?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

There is a reference to 20 years and an unlimited fine, but I take that point.

Some people have suggested in the consultation that fines should be linked to turnover, rather than the bill simply referring to unlimited fines. Would that be a good way of doing it? In the same way, some speeding fines can be linked to income. Should the fine be linked to income—yes or no? Would anyone be against doing that? It might be a good amendment to the bill.

Yes? Okay. I see that no one is against that.

I was snappy—I now move straight to Mark Ruskell for the next questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

We come, at last, to Douglas Lumsden, who has kept very quiet through the whole session. You have some questions, Douglas.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Welcome back, everyone. I welcome to the meeting our second panel of witnesses on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Catherine McWilliam, nations director Scotland, Institute of Directors; Professor Simon Parsons, director of environmental planning and assurance, Scottish Water; Elspeth Macdonald, chair—I mean, chief executive officer; I was probably promoting you—Scottish Fishermen’s Federation; and Jonnie Hall, deputy chief executive officer and director of policy, NFU Scotland.

Thank you all for attending. You will have seen how, at the end of the last session, I was trying to keep things moving, because of time, and I apologise for having kept you waiting. I do not like doing that, and I do not like having to apologise for it, but I hope that you will accept my apologies.

My first question is a simple yes or no one, just to warm you up for the rest of your answers. Is a new offence of ecocide needed in Scotland? I will start on my left: Jonnie, is your answer yes or no?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Elspeth?