The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Welcome back. We turn to our third and final evidence session on the Scottish carbon budget regulations. I welcome to the meeting Gillian Martin, the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Action and Energy, and Scottish Government officials Philip Raines, who is deputy director for domestic climate change, and Julia Burgham Pearson, who is a lawyer.
The regulations have been laid under the affirmative procedure, which means that they cannot come into force unless Parliament approves them. Following this evidence session, the committee will be invited to consider a motion that recommends that the regulations be approved. I remind everyone that the officials can speak during this item but not in the debate that will follow it.
In case anything comes up that relates to agriculture, I remind everyone, as I did at the start of the earlier evidence session, that, in my entry in the register of interests, I have declared that I am a member of a family farming partnership in Moray, where we raise cattle for the production of beef that is sold around the world.
I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Thank you, cabinet secretary. You and I have discussed this before, and I want to get it on the official record. In March 2024, the Climate Change Committee said that it felt that the targets that had been set were unachievable, which resulted in a certain amount of changing of legislation last year and the Climate Change Committee laying its advice to you on 21 May. As you said, that resulted in you laying your carbon budgets before the committee on 19 June.
My concern relates to the period from now until the end of the parliamentary session. If you lay your climate change plan at the beginning of November, that will be followed by 120 days of consultation. It will probably take at least another 30 days to summarise all the responses. Unless your civil servants work through the night, every night, and every weekend, that process will take a fair bit of time. My maths tells me that that means that, as a Parliament, we will not get to discuss the climate change plan in any detail, following consideration of the public responses, until March, when we will be just about to go into recess for the election. That is exactly where we were five years ago, when the unachievable targets were set. Are you confident that nothing will get in the way of you getting the climate change plan produced and agreed by Parliament by the end of the session?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
As you said, the committee has shown a willingness to consider the regulations at pace and to get that done as quickly as possible so that there will be no delay in the delivery of the climate change plan. I reiterate that what concerns me is the public consultation. The public may have very strong views on the draft plan—I hope that they do; I hope that they respond in numbers to show that they buy into what is suggested—and it might need to be adapted before it comes before the Parliament.
I have grave concerns about the timescale, which I have now put on the record. I see that Mark Ruskell wants to come in on that issue.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
I did not say this at the beginning, so I will say it now. There are a huge number of questions to get through and, in the previous evidence session, committee members were extremely good at making their questions succinct. I am not saying that your answers have not been succinct, cabinet secretary, but I encourage everyone to keep to short questions and short answers.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
That would be helpful for the committee.
10:45Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
I am asking whether you have highlighted all the problems that are reserved issues and that require the UK Government to act to allow us to reach our target by 2045. You have not identified any other problems, apart from the challenging targets that have been set.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
We drifted away from where I was trying to get to. I was trying to get to the letter that you said you have written to Ed Miliband that highlighted all the reserved problems that you feel the UK Government has to move on to help Scotland meet net zero by 2045. That is my question, and it is a simple yes-or-no answer.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
The next questions will come from Douglas Lumsden.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
There are some follow-up questions. I will flag this up before I have to start being a little bit more forceful: we are less than halfway through the questions, yet we are more than halfway through the time. Cabinet secretary and members of the committee, I ask that you bear in mind that short questions and answers are obviously best. There is a short question from Douglas Lumsden followed by a short question from the deputy convener.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 September 2025
Edward Mountain
This is the second warning that questions need to be succinct. I have the very last question and I will not exclude myself, so please keep it short.
Bob Doris, you are coming on to a very interesting subject.