The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 8273 contributions
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Thanks, Shivali, that would be helpful.
Right, I will try to move things along quite quickly. We have heard from various witnesses on whether the defence of necessity is required. My question requires a simple yes or no answer from each of you. Is the defence of necessity required? Jamie?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Just before we go back to the questioning, I think that history has proven that, if somebody knows that they are doing something wrong, defending themselves by saying that they were only following orders has never been acceptable. You seem to be suggesting that it might be acceptable. My view is that that surely cannot be the case. If someone knows that they are doing wrong, they are doing wrong and they should not do it.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Thank you, Sarah—there is nothing like being told what to do as convener by a committee member. I might refer to those later questions that you wanted to ask. [Laughter.]
To make it clear, when I talked about a river earlier, I was not referring to the River Spey. If I had been, I would have had to declare an interest. In case anyone thinks that I was, I declare that I have an interest in the River Spey.
Let us move on to penalties. The penalties are 20 years in prison and an unlimited fine. That is massive. Is that required—yes or no?
Jamie Whittle can go first.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Yes is fine; you only get a short answer. Sue, yes or no?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
I will try to give you a real-life scenario. Take, for example, a river in Scotland—it does not matter where it is—where the water is abstracted to create power, which goes into the national grid, and to provide drinking water for local communities. One year—as has happened this year—the water levels get critically low, and abstracting the water means that a freshwater mussel population is destroyed, and it is determined that the act represents ecocide, because the mussels were definitely an endangered population. If the defence is that doing that was necessary to give power to the national grid and to provide local people with drinking water, who will make the decision in that regard?
Valerie, you are shaking your head. I think that local people might be annoyed if they cannot get a drink of water in the evening.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Well, at the end of the day, you will probably die if you cannot drink.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Monica Lennon has a couple of questions.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Do you have a second question? I am conscious of the time.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
I thank the witnesses for coming to give evidence. I apologise for making you answer more questions and stay longer than you had expected, but that may have happened because you gave such detailed answers, so I am going to let you shoulder some of the blame. I know that some of you have offered to submit information to the committee after the meeting. The sooner that you can do that, the better, because there are pressures on our timescale.
I suspend the meeting until 10:40.
10:32 Meeting suspended.Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Thank you.
My next question is based on that. Do you think that there is a significant risk of an ecocide event, as defined in the bill, happening in Scotland? We will start the other way round, with Catherine McWilliam.