The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 8273 contributions
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Good morning and welcome to the 28th meeting in 2025 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. I welcome to the committee Sarah Boyack, who is the Labour Party substitute member. Under rule 9.1.3A of our standing orders, Monica Lennon is not entitled to exercise the rights of a committee member in relation to agenda items 1, 2 and 3, because she is the member in charge of the bill that the committee will be considering under those items. Under those circumstances, the Labour Party substitute member Sarah Boyack is entitled to take her place.
Monica Lennon is, however, attending our meeting and, as all members of the Scottish Parliament are, she is entitled to attend the public evidence session. In accordance with how I have always run committees, I will give her a chance to ask some questions of each panel at the end of the discussions.
When we get to item 4, which does not concern the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill, rule 9.1.3A no longer applies to Monica Lennon and I understand that she will take part in the item in her capacity as a committee member; Sarah Boyack will not take part in that item. I hope that that is all clear.
Item 3 is consideration of the evidence heard on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill; item 4 is consideration of a draft report on the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009 (Scottish Carbon Budgets) Amendment Regulations 2025. Do we agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Abstained, right. Shivali?
I cannot hear you, sorry—you dropped off, for some reason. Try it again.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
I think that that is a yes in principle. That was a very long answer to a yes or no question.
Valerie, see if you can give me a yes or no answer, please.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Okay. I come back to Sarah Boyack.
I note that our time is technically up, and we have another panel after this one, so you will have to be really sharp and snappy in your answers. I am sorry if that does not give you a chance to explain everything—that is just the timescale that we have. We have a stage 3 debate in the chamber this afternoon, so I do not want to run on too late.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Does anyone think that the penalties are too strong, or do you all think that prison for 20 years is the right place to be for somebody who commits ecocide?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
There is a reference to 20 years and an unlimited fine, but I take that point.
Some people have suggested in the consultation that fines should be linked to turnover, rather than the bill simply referring to unlimited fines. Would that be a good way of doing it? In the same way, some speeding fines can be linked to income. Should the fine be linked to income—yes or no? Would anyone be against doing that? It might be a good amendment to the bill.
Yes? Okay. I see that no one is against that.
I was snappy—I now move straight to Mark Ruskell for the next questions.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
We come, at last, to Douglas Lumsden, who has kept very quiet through the whole session. You have some questions, Douglas.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Welcome back, everyone. I welcome to the meeting our second panel of witnesses on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Catherine McWilliam, nations director Scotland, Institute of Directors; Professor Simon Parsons, director of environmental planning and assurance, Scottish Water; Elspeth Macdonald, chair—I mean, chief executive officer; I was probably promoting you—Scottish Fishermen’s Federation; and Jonnie Hall, deputy chief executive officer and director of policy, NFU Scotland.
Thank you all for attending. You will have seen how, at the end of the last session, I was trying to keep things moving, because of time, and I apologise for having kept you waiting. I do not like doing that, and I do not like having to apologise for it, but I hope that you will accept my apologies.
My first question is a simple yes or no one, just to warm you up for the rest of your answers. Is a new offence of ecocide needed in Scotland? I will start on my left: Jonnie, is your answer yes or no?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Elspeth?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 23 September 2025
Edward Mountain
Simon?