Chamber and committees

Thank you, Douglas. As no other member wishes to say anything, I wish to talk about amendments 310, 339, 150 and 174, which relate to public interest.

I understand the need to address public interest, and I have heard what has been said about it during the course of this stage 2 debate. My concern is that a certain amount of conflict would be created by the list of things in subsection (2) of the proposed new provision that amendment 310 would introduce. When you draw up a management plan as the owner of land, you cannot keep everyone happy—that is for sure—and you cannot afford to do everything that everyone wants to do. There is no definition or clarity in any of these amendments about public interest in relation to who is going to pay the person who delivers the public interest and whether, in fact, that person should be rewarded for that.

At the moment, the system pays agricultural subsidies for achieving various aims. I put my hand up and say that I am in receipt of agricultural subsidies for delivering public good in relation to the production of food.

Proposed new subsection (2)(k), as set out in amendment 310, is about contributing to food security and food system resilience. Another paragraph in proposed subsection (2) relates to a requirement for diversity. The problem is that, sometimes, intensive grazing of land to create food security is the best way forward but it might not be in the Government’s interest. At the moment, the Government is struggling to come to terms with the advice of the Climate Change Committee on whether to reduce livestock numbers across Scotland by 30 per cent. That might destroy farms and farmers who would not be able to achieve the scale needed to carry out their business. I am concerned, and I do not think that any of the tests that have been put forward under amendments 310, 339, 150 or 174 define how public interest and its delivery will be rewarded.

Sorry, Mercedes, but can I just come in here? It is always very difficult at stage 2 to make sure that there is an open debate, but it does not need to be a conversation across the table. I am gently pointing you to ask a question, which might be followed up by another question, through me, and then you can address the issues when you get to speak. Otherwise, I fear that we could be here until Christmas, which might be a good thing, but maybe not.

The next item of business is stage 2 of the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill, which is consideration of amendments. I welcome the non-committee members who are here today. This is our first stage 2 meeting on the bill. At the moment, the deadline for lodging amendments is 27 June, but more than 516 amendments have already been lodged, which will require some consideration.

Before we go into the detail of the amendments, I remind members, as I always do at the start of stage 2 considerations in this committee, that I have an interest in a farming partnership in Moray, as set out clearly in my entry in the register of members’ interests. Specifically, I declare an interest as the owner of approximately 500 acres—for those of you who want to know the conversion, it is 202 hectares—of farmland, of which 50 acres, or just over 20 hectares, is woodland.

I also declare that I am a tenant of approximately 500 acres, or approximately 202 hectares, in Moray under a non-agricultural tenancy, and that I have another farming tenancy under the Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Act 1991. I also take on grass lets on an annual basis, should I need to.

It is hard to predict how much progress the committee will make today, but I can say with some confidence that I do not expect us to get past section 6 today. I am looking to stop the stage 2 consideration at around 12.30, so that we have time to consider our work programme.

As this is our first stage 2 meeting on the bill, I will recap the process. Committee members should have before them the bill, the marshalled list and the groupings. For those of you who are watching online, those documents are available on the Scottish Parliament’s bill web page.

I will call each amendment in the order that it appears on the marshalled list. The member who lodged the amendment should either move it or say “not moved” when it is called. If that member does not move the amendment, any other member present may do so. The groupings document sets out the amendments in the order in which they will be debated. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. The member who lodged the first amendment in the group will be called to speak to and move the amendment and to speak to any other amendments in the group. I will then call other members who have amendments in the group to speak, but not to move, their amendments and to speak to the other amendments in the group, if they wish.

I will then call any other members who wish to speak in the debate. If you wish to speak, indicate that to me or to the clerk to make sure that I bring you in. I will then call the cabinet secretary to speak, if she has not already spoken in the debate. Finally, I will call the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up and to press or withdraw the amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw an amendment after it has been moved and debated, I will ask whether any member present objects. If there is an objection, I will put the question on the amendment. Later amendments in the group are not debated again when they are reached in the marshalled list. If they are moved, I will put the question on them straight away.

Only committee members may vote in a division, and, because this is a hybrid meeting, voting will be done by roll call. We hope that we will get a result there and then, if the figures tally. If they do not tally, we will do the roll call again until they do—but they will.

That is how it works. There is a huge briefing pack, which is just for today—there is a lot more to come.

Before section 1

As we are just about to go into the next phase of quite a long debate, I propose that we have a nine-minute break, and I ask people to be back here at 10.50. That is my military background coming out.

I call Mercedes Villalba to speak to amendment 174 and other amendments in the group.

Amendment 12, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 13, 15, 108, 417, 132, 162, 161, 165, 165A, 458, 170, 175, 217, 219 and 220. I call the cabinet secretary to move amendment 12 and speak to the other amendments in the group.

I call Bob Doris to speak to amendment 22 and other amendments in the group.

Thank you, Tim. As no other member wishes to speak to the group and I am not going to do so, I invite the cabinet secretary to wind up.

I call Tim Eagle to speak to amendment 427 and other amendments in the group.

I call Ariane Burgess to speak to amendment 3 and other amendments in the group.