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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 January 2026
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Displaying 3384 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Thank you. I will bring in John Mason.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Do you want to come in, Ms Pasternak?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The next item of business is evidence from two panels on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome our first panel. Stephen Bermingham is senior policy and standards manager for Children’s Hearings Scotland; Matt Forde is partnerships and development director for NSPCC Scotland; Margaret Smith, who is joining us remotely, is the services manager for Partners in Advocacy; Alastair Hogg is head of practice and policy for the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration; and Laura Pasternak is policy and public affairs manager for Who Cares? Scotland. Welcome to you all. As you can see, we have a big panel, with five of you on it, so there is a lot to get through with members’ questions and your answers.

Looking at all your briefings, I see that you are largely supportive of some areas in the bill but there are some areas in which you would like to see change. Could you briefly describe what you like about what is in the bill and what you would like to see improved during our scrutiny at stage 1, and at stages 2 and 3 if the bill progresses? Mr. Hogg, I will start with you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

We will get into a number of those elements through our questions.

I come to Mr Forde. If there are elements of what Mr Hogg said that you agree with, you do not need to repeat them. Which areas of the bill do you think are good, and which do you think that the committee and the Parliament should focus on with a view to improving?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I welcome our second panel of witnesses: Lynne O'Brien, chief officer for children and families at Aberlour; Duncan Dunlop; Natalie Williams, head of policy and campaigns at the Fostering Network; and Jo Derrick, chief executive officer of the Scottish Throughcare and Aftercare Forum. I thank them all for their time today and for their submissions.

I began with a very open question to the first panel and it took half an hour to get through that, so I will try to be a bit tighter with my questions. Although there are positives in your submissions, I am really keen to hear about where you think the bill needs to be improved and developed and about what is missing, and I know that other members will also come to that. If you want to talk about the positives, please do so, but the committee really has to scrutinise where the bill can be improved.

Ms Derrick, I will start with you. Are there any areas where the bill could be improved that you would like to focus on?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Before I turn to Mr Dunlop, I can say that it is useful to get that overview and that other committee members will delve further into those issues.

We heard from some of last week’s witnesses that they felt that there had been lack of engagement in advance of the bill being published, although there was more engagement after that. Do you have similar concerns? Could some of those issues have been addressed if there had been improved engagement between Scottish Government ministers or civil servants and all of you, or have you been satisfied with the engagement that you have had on the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

All the political parties have signed up to the Promise and are supportive of it. You mention in your evidence that it is 3,256 days since Nicola Sturgeon made that commitment and got cross-party support. Why do you feel that we are at the stage that we are at now, and that the bill that has been produced by the Scottish Government lacks any of the ambition that you would expect? There is political will, and that is surely the biggest thing that the Government needs behind it. It has the political will and consensus across the Parliament. Why has it not gone further through the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Hearing you talk about love suggests that there is a different side to you that I have not seen before, Mr Adam. [Laughter.]

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I accept that. That is a legal question, which we will definitely put to the minister.

The minister has already taken a decision to frame the bill in such a way that there are elements that are outwith the UNCRC, because it refers back to the 1995 act. If that is not rectified, would that be a significant enough concern for you to say, “We shouldn’t support this bill”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

We move to questions from Ross Greer.