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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 November 2025
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Displaying 2871 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Of course it would be, but I think that a request for a minister to give a statement will often be agreed to by the bureau.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Welcome back. The next item of business is evidence, over two panels, on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome our first panel. Sheriff David Mackie is chairperson of the hearings system working group, Fiona Duncan is independent strategic adviser to The Promise Scotland, and Fraser McKinlay is chief executive at The Promise Scotland. Thank you very much for joining us today. I apologise for our lateness in getting to you—I know that you sat through the previous session.

I will kick off the questions, which I will direct to Sheriff Mackie first of all. There are positive points in your submission on the bill, but there are also some criticisms—that is a theme throughout the submissions. Your criticisms are quite stark. You speak about the bill lacking ambition. You state:

“Some … provisions seem unnecessarily complex to the point of being, at times, unintelligible and inaccessible to anyone who is not a lawyer.”

You also speak about the bill being a “Lost opportunity”.

You can talk about some of the positives if you want to, but I particularly want to look at what we as a committee need to scrutinise and what deficiencies you see in the bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

You said there has been a marked increase in engagement in recent days and weeks. Is that from Scottish Government ministers or officials?

09:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Your report made a number of recommendations. As you say, some have filtered through, but the majority have not. How do you feel about the work that went into producing the report, given that the bill is an opportunity that was not taken to encompass that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

That was perfect. I have never had witnesses respond so positively to my polite suggestions for brevity.

We will move on to questions from John Mason.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I will bring Mr McKinlay in, but your evidence is that the bill will add to the complexity, which is not particularly reassuring in relation to passing the tests that you have just spoken about.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

You were already a good witness, Sheriff Mackie, but, by mentioning Elgin, you have just gone up even further in my estimation. Well done on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr McKinlay might have pre-empted what I was going to say. You are giving us detailed and valuable answers, which is what we need. However, there are a lot of committee members, so, although we are at fault for starting late, it would be good if we can constrain some of the answers, because we have a second panel. However, do not limit what you want to get across—it is vital.

We will move to questions from Bill Kidd.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Sheriff Mackie, may I take advantage of your being here to tease out a couple more things in relation to your evidence? We have already discussed some of the language that is used and said that it is difficult to follow. Is it the case that the principle around the language is correct but that it just needs redrafting, or are the problems more significant? Is it simply a case of changing some of the words and how things are written, or is there a more fundamental problem, particularly in relation to section 90 of the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Ms Galli, because you are joining remotely, I would like you to indicate if you want to come in. The Law Society has an interest in this point and your sub-committee has been looking at the bill. Do you have anything to add?

I understand that you also want to make a brief opening remark about where you are giving evidence from today.