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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 March 2026
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Implementation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

Good morning and a very warm welcome to the 18th meeting in 2022 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. I apologise for the slight delay to the start of the meeting. We have received apologies from Maurice Golden MSP. Mark Ruskell MSP joins us online. I welcome those who are joining us online.

Our first agenda item is the implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol. This is the fourth in our series of sessions focusing on post-European Union exit constitutional issues. We are joined in the committee room by Stuart Anderson, head of public affairs, Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry, and Dr Lisa Claire Whitten, research fellow, post-Brexit governance Northern Ireland, Queen’s University Belfast. Joining us online is Declan Billington, chief executive, John Thompson and Sons Ltd. We are also joined in the committee room by our adviser, Professor Katy Hayward, from Queen’s University Belfast. I welcome you all to the meeting. We have received apologies from John-Patrick Clayton, policy officer with Unison—we had hoped that he would be able to join our round table this morning.

We have four main themes that we hope to look at in turn. We will spend about 20 minutes on each theme. I refer members to paper 1 in our briefing papers.

Our first theme is the Northern Ireland economy. The most recent economic analysis in Northern Ireland shows that output seems to be outperforming that in the rest of the United Kingdom. What is the panel’s view of the impact following Brexit on Northern Ireland in comparison with other areas of the UK? I will go to Dr Whitten first.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Implementation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

That is very helpful.

I do not see any indications of further questions from the committee, which leaves me to thank you all for your contributions and for your briefings for today’s session. I also thank our adviser Katy Hayward for being with us today. The session has been really helpful. I am sure that we will return to the issue so we might see you again in the future.

I suspend the meeting for five minutes to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

10:23 Meeting suspended.  

10:28 On resuming—  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Implementation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

We will move to questions from the committee, the first of which is from Donald Cameron.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Implementation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

I will move to our second area of questions, which is around dynamic alignment with the EU, which has already been mentioned by Dr Whitten. I was struck by a comment that Mr Billington made earlier about the lack of knowledge or a loss of knowledge in Whitehall. We know that there are plans to reduce the number of civil servants in Whitehall quite significantly. One of the things that we are struggling with in a Scottish context is the Scottish Government commitment to keep pace. We have the keeping-pace power, which has not been used yet, but we know that some issues being introduced through secondary legislation, which is a bit opaque to stakeholders in particular and is also a bit opaque to the Parliament. Legislation has not kept pace in certain areas, which sometimes can be almost as important.

Do you have any thoughts or lessons that we might learn here about what that means and how the dynamic alignment is working in Northern Ireland?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained European Union Law

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

Thank you. Before we move on, I offer my apologies for not mentioning that Professor Tobias Lock, who is a committee adviser, has also joined us and may take part in the discussion.

I ask Kirsty Hood to comment.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained European Union Law

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

Yes, we can. Can we switch the video feed off? That might help. We can hear you, but the video connection is sticky.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Implementation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

Our final two topics are potential solutions and a general opinion on the introduction of the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill. We have touched on some of that already. In our final few minutes together, can you give us an indication of how far apart people are? The EU’s proposals have now been published, and the bill is going through Parliament. How far apart are some of the potential solutions, and has there been an analysis of the EU’s proposals for some of these issues? I will come to Dr Whitten first.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Implementation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

Mr Billington, do you want to come in? I am afraid that I can see only one person on the screen at a time, so I am not getting any cues from people if they want to speak.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained European Union Law

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

The connection might be a bit sticky. Can we persevere for a few moments?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Retained European Union Law

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Clare Adamson

Thank you. I will turn briefly to Dr West on his comments about scrutiny and consent, and how the Sewel convention is being interpreted at the moment. Where will it leave the Scottish Parliament and this committee, which are responsible for scrutinising the Scottish Government, if EU law in devolved areas is amended through that process?