Chamber and committees

That is true, convener. Demand is not even across the year. Nonetheless, you would be surprised at how booking is increasing in months that we would not normally have expected, in years gone by. The outdoor centres are very pleased about the fact that some of that booking is being spread across the year.

There is a question for some—not all—outdoor centres about having to update their provision. I do not think that that will prevent the numbers of youngsters who will likely go, but it is nonetheless important to have not just quantity but quality. It has to be a good experience for young people qualitatively as well as quantitatively. If dormitory areas, kitchen areas or lounge areas are not up to scratch, that is an issue.

I will mention one thing that I have proposed in the bill, although I note that this is perhaps not relevant to the financial memorandum. School inspection is taking a much greater interest in what goes on through the extracurricular side of education. The education authorities are very interested in inspecting a school experience not just through what happens in that particular school but through where schools take their young people to get that extra dimension. I would like to see that include looking at the quality of provision. That is an important aspect for the education inspectorate—I have spoken with it several times—to consider.

I am absolutely 100 per cent convinced that this is about providing our young people with the skills, confidence and resilience that we need in Scotland—particularly since the Covid crisis, given that anxiety is so powerfully strong among many young people.

Anything that we can do from an educational perspective to improve the opportunities for our young people—particularly when it comes to working in the outside world or going on to college or university—is absolutely fundamental.

One of the most important effects of the bill would be if we get a more skilled, confident and able workforce than we have now and inspire more people to come into the workforce, instead of having a high level of economic inactivity. I base that on my experience of teaching and of almost 20 years in politics, and on my understanding of what we can do with young people when they have these experiences. The evidence is so strong that that nails it for me.

You asked me how that fits with my own party’s policies on public finance. We want to build in resilience and ensure that any spending commitments or tax reductions that we make are in line with greater fiscal transparency, which, rightly, is a big thing for this committee. That is where it fits in.

Primarily, the bill is about giving our youngsters a better offer as part of their education. I am really passionate about that.

I am sure that that will come out in the budget. I think that you know my own views and I have said in response to recent budgets that there are things that we would not do quite so much of, because of other priorities.

Teachers really matter. They can inspire our young people and they work alongside parents. Preventative spending to give young people better opportunities is a no-brainer.

You are quite right, Mr Greer; I have heard comments to that effect, but I also heard Nick March’s response to that suggestion. I think that the word “profiteering” was used, but he said that that is not happening and that providers are very keen to ensure that it never will, because their work is not about making vast profits out of young people’s lives.

One thing that struck me in last week’s evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee was that providers have taken great trouble to ensure that outdoor experience is articulated with the curriculum for excellence. Pupils are not just out in canoes or climbing Munros—there is far more flexibility. I am particularly struck by something that I hope will strike members of that committee when they go on their visit, which is that centres are far more diverse than they used to be. None of them is into making big sums of money—nor could they be, in the current fiscal climate—so I do not think that there will be profiteering or vast increases in the amounts charged. I do not see that happening.

No, but I would have thought—this is certainly my experience of young teachers—that if they see existing staff participating and having a really beneficial time, and youngsters under their care having a beneficial time, too, they will want to participate as well.

The issue of teacher contracts is important, and we have to accept that what the unions are saying to us in that respect is very important. However, I do not want to feel that this kind of educational experience will put off teachers and that they will just walk away. I would have to explore further with the unions their comments about why that might be happen.

Yes, I think that there is a discussion to be had about that. Indeed, it will not just be the centres themselves that will have to plan ahead; schools, too, will need time. The guidance will need to ensure that there is time to plan ahead, and it might well be that we will have to move to the next academic session to do that. That is a discussion that I have been having with the Scottish Government.

We have already been told that the transport costs are prohibitive for some schools—that is very clear—and, indeed, some local authorities are having great difficulty in providing the necessary transport. However, that is the case for all pupils, not just those from more income-disadvantaged backgrounds. We have to be clear that transportation is a cost issue and ensure that it is covered by the various means that I have set out in the financial memorandum.

That is good to hear, because, obviously, the better the data, the better it is for policy makers.

I understand that. However, I come back to the point that the ballpark figures in the financial memorandum and the Scottish Government costings are not that far apart. That is an important point.

As the centres will tell you, when it comes to bed-space availability and demand, some of them are booked up quite some time in advance. That is important. That demand will provide them with greater income. It is true that some centres have issues, but they are adamant that the bill could help them. As I said, the arithmetic that we have done is, I think, quite accurate.

Cancellation happens fairly regularly, not least because of the Scottish weather. Usually, if there is a cancellation, the trip is held over to a more appropriate time at which the school can go.