Chamber and committees

Right, well, I have made my point—I got that off my chest.

We will probably come on to discuss integrated ticketing later, but you raise an interesting point.

Some of us have heard concerns that, although it would obviously be a good thing if we got more people on to buses, and those buses ran on similar routes to trains, it would mean that, as long as the bus did not take a lot longer than the train—which it could do—people could choose to use the heavily subsidised bus rather than the Scottish Government-owned train. The Government could therefore lose out both ways, could it not?

I suppose the problem is that we do not know how the £2 cap will work, because it is not Scotland-wide.

I think that that is accurate, and my understanding is that discussions are still going on today.

I am not going to say who I have spoken to, but my information is that at least one company’s drivers were being briefed last week about how that might work, because the drivers are at the forefront of dealing with this.

I am concerned that, in Strathclyde, where there are a lot of bus operators, and they are not all the big boys, the smaller companies do not have the staffing capacity to introduce the initiative within this timescale. They may get there or they may choose not to. Therefore, next week, there might be areas in that region where passengers will not be able to get a £2 bus fare.

10:30

We need clarity. We do not have Transport Scotland in front of us today, but I am sure that it will be watching. I would urge the body to write to the committee and get the information out there to the public about where people will be able to get a bus fare for £2 and where they will not.

Sorry for being cheeky, convener. This is just for information. The Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 said that a national smart ticketing advisory board should be set up, and it was set up in November 2023. There have been a number of meetings since, and it has achieved nothing. There are industry people and others on that board, and it meets several times a year, but we have had nothing as a result. It might be worth this committee looking into that. The board exists, but it has not achieved what it is meant to achieve.

The Government will

“Review the functions of the National Smart Ticketing Advisory Board”—

which has not achieved very much—

“to ascertain if they should transfer to the Scottish Government, or elsewhere in the public sector.”

I have no idea what that means. I am just reading from the programme for government. Does anyone have an instant response to that that does not relate to franchising? [Laughter.]

I will come on to that. This feels like an old meeting of the cross-party group on sustainable transport, which I used to chair. I have had to keep Ellie Harrison in check several times—not an easy task, convener, I have to say.

Before I come to the bus fare cap, Ellie, you described areas where we have gaps in service. I describe them as bus deserts; they do not exist only in rural areas but also in urban ones. I often bang on about my situation: I live in a big town, East Kilbride, but my bus service was withdrawn years ago and replaced by a service that SPT funds, which is not as good as the rather poor service that was there previously. Therefore, I do not use the bus, because there is no bus service worth having for me.

If I wanted to go into Glasgow by bus, which is a journey of just under 9 miles, it would take me over an hour; I can cycle there quicker—I am not a fast cyclist, but it is all downhill. [Laughter.] The reasons for that are, first, congestion, and, secondly, that the buses stop everywhere. Nobody has mentioned that yet. You have mentioned bus priority lanes, but I wonder whether other measures exist to speed buses up, because that is one of the frustrations. That is not only in Glasgow—I see it in Edinburgh, where buses get snarled up in the city centre when you can get there a lot quicker by hopping on a Voi bike, to which I know that the convener is a new recruit. It is very frustrating.

Good. I feel better for it. [Laughter.]

On the bus fare cap, the First Minister announced yesterday that, in essence, the £2 cap would be rolled out to Strathclyde. What do witnesses think about that?

Having spoken to some bus operators, I understand that the big bus operators are signed up to it and were discussing it with their staff last week. Transport Scotland and the big bus operators have been in discussions to be ready for next week, which takes us slightly beyond the 100-day promise that John Swinney made, though only by a few days. Some of the smaller operators, of which there are many in the Strathclyde region, may be struggling, so we might not have a complete picture. Transport Scotland has said that the cap is voluntary, so operators do not have to do it.

I wonder what witnesses’ reflections are on that. I will go to Ellie Harrison first, because she is from Strathclyde.

Hang on—