Chamber and committees

I will press amendment 51. At the start of this debate, while members were speaking to their amendments, I wrote down the word “uplifting”—it was uplifting, because we had virtual unity across the board on what people think ought to be achieved. Then, as soon as the minister started to speak, my mood darkened. I was watching the body language of members who are on the committee and those who are not, and there was a lot of head shaking going on, as the minister dug a hole deeper and deeper. He does not appear to have been able to get out of it.

What he seems to be saying—in fact, what he is saying—is that he has not reached a conclusion on many of the amendments in the group. He cannot reach a conclusion, because the PBSA review group has not reached a conclusion on many of the amendments in the group.

I see that Mr Johnson wishes to intervene, and I shall, of course, let him.

I agree with the cabinet secretary that our energy system should be a mix. That is why I am keen to pilot hydrogen—just to see whether it works. I see Mr Johnson nodding at that point, so I am glad about that. Let us see how it goes. If it does not work, we should not proceed with it, but if it does, it has potential.

It is a little bit concerning that the Scottish Government does not include low-emission heating systems such as hydrogen-ready boilers in its Scottish house condition survey data. In response to a written question, Alasdair Allan said:

“these forms of heating will be considered for inclusion in future surveys when they become more prevalent in the Scottish dwelling stock.”—[Written Answers, 9 January 2025; S6W-32993.]

I say gently to Dr Allan that we need to know the state of play now, and not sometime in the future, so he might want to reconsider that.

I turn to transport, which is the biggest carbon-emitting sector but the one with the most potential for using hydrogen. There is a lot going on in transport. In November last year, the cross party group on aviation heard from Jane Golding of Sustainable Aviation Test Environment, who spoke about delivering sustainable regional aviation and improved connectivity for the Highlands and Islands. She told us that HITRANS is looking at a number of projects, including a nine to 19-seater inter-island aircraft powered by hydrogen, which HITRANS hopes will be ready for 2027. The aviation sector in general is looking at hydrogen as a future fuel.

Those MSPs who follow my contributions will no doubt have picked up on my keen interest in European Union regulation 2023/1804 on the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure. I see no nods of recognition, so I will refresh members’ collective memory. This will be of interest to all those members who are desperately keen to keep pace with EU regulations. The regulation says that, by the end of the year, there should be one recharging pool at least every 37 miles on the main road network in the EU. Imagine if we had that here—it would be transformative. Mr Golden, who is sitting to my left, might be happier to have an electric car than he is, and refuseniks such as me might consider getting one. On hydrogen, the regulation says that publicly accessible hydrogen refuelling stations must be deployed, with a maximum distance of 124 miles between them. That is why, across the EU, you can see hydrogen filling stations popping up.

I note from your look, Presiding Officer, that you might want me to conclude, despite having a little bit of extra time. I will finish by mentioning Grangemouth, which is in my region. We have known about the potential to make lots of hydrogen there since well before project willow. It is for the UK and Scottish Governments to turn warm words into action and make it happen. In general, however, there ought to be consensus on the issue. I am happy to support the motion in Gillian Martin’s name, and I hope that she will support my amendment.

I move amendment S6M-17399.1, to insert at end:

“, and further calls on the Scottish Government to work with the UK Government on developing plans for hydrogen to be part of Scotland’s energy mix, and to set out how it can play a role in transport and heating.”

Is there time in hand, Deputy Presiding Officer?

Jolly good. I will take Mr Harvie’s intervention.

I welcome this debate because, amid all the hoo-hah about net zero, just transition, affordable transition or whatever we want to call it, if we asked people whether they would like to be able to use a fuel that gives off nothing but water to power their homes and vehicles, most would say yes. That is, in essence, what hydrogen can deliver, and here in Scotland we can be at the forefront of developing the technology to do just that. It is a great opportunity, as the cabinet secretary said.

As ever, however, we need to get on with it, because, as ever, we are not doing well enough. I will give a small example of that. For all the cabinet secretary’s warm words, it remains true that, although a £100 million hydrogen action plan was announced in 2022, when she was at the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee on 14 January, she could not say how much of it had been spent. Having said that, I do not want this debate to be a point-scoring exercise, which that committee session was in parts, because I think that we all want pretty much the same thing. That is why we support the Government’s motion, why the amendment in my name is so relentlessly positive—as you would expect from me, Deputy Presiding Officer—and why everyone should support both it and the motion.

The Government has done some good stuff—we must recognise that. There was the £7 million in-year funding for grants to support strategically important green hydrogen projects. Four applications for that were submitted in December. There was another £7 million for the hydrogen innovation scheme, which supported 31 projects. In January, Ms Martin could not say what that had achieved, so I was hoping that today would be the day for that information, and it almost was—she gave us a little bit of detail in her speech.

There was £6 million from the just transition fund to HydroGlen, which is the green hydrogen farming pilot. Another £15 million went to the green hydrogen hub in Aberdeen, with some going to the Storegga green hydrogen project in Speyside, which is working to decarbonise whisky distilling and is working with the local authority to potentially provide green hydrogen for fleets of vehicles. That is all well and good, but the story so far is one of the country having great potential but not quite getting over the line yet.

I am mystified by the Greens’ approach to hydrogen. It is a fuel that gives off nothing but water; I thought that the Greens would be on board with that. Surely the idea of a pilot project is to test the technology to see whether it works. Mr Harvie is shaking his head as though he does not want a pilot project. His position is, indeed, bizarre.

It should be possible to use hydrogen in existing infrastructure and boilers. If there are signals to the market to that effect, it could be a game changer.

Will Mark Ruskell give way?

I am not here to do the cabinet secretary’s job for her, but I am happy to assist on this occasion.

There are promising projects. I am grateful to Green Cat Hydrogen for letting us know about the Creca hydrogen facility next to Chapelcross, the Binn Ecopark project, the Strathallan hydrogen facility, which could be operational by 2027, and the Hammers Hill development in Orkney.

I mentioned how hydrogen could be used in heating. That would help us to decarbonise and increase our energy security, if we make the hydrogen in Scotland. The H100 project in Fife, which has already been mentioned, should tell us a great deal about how feasible that roll-out would be.

But when you have looked at colleges, for instance, you have looked at the condition of the estate, too. You have mentioned that in previous reports.

Auditor General, I notice that one of the audits that you are due to publish in May will be on the Scottish National Investment Bank, which, since it was formed in November 2020, has had two permanent chief executives and an interim one. The current chief executive is about to retire, which means that the bank will soon be on its fourth chief executive in less than five years. That is an issue.

I know that you cannot tell us exactly what will be in the audit, but I wonder what level of detail it will go into. Are you looking at individual investments made by the bank and the value for money that they represent? Is that the kind of thing you are looking at?