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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 2022 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Indeed. Yoshiko, I want to go back to what you said much earlier about data. What data do you feel is missing? What data ought we to be capturing?

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

So you do not have that data.

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

The convener invited me to ask about funding, so I guess that I had better do that or I will incur his wrath, and I do not want to do that.

Your briefing notes that

“Funding allocation methodologies for councils do not reflect the ASL legislation, the presumption of mainstreaming and the continued growth in recorded additional support needs.”

How does that misalignment impact councils’ ability to deliver adequate support for pupils with ASL needs?

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Okay—that is useful. Auditor General, you mentioned that the project board that has been set up will not report until 2028, and the convener made the very good point that that will be too late for many children. What is your view on that? Should it report sooner? It seems to be operating at a snail’s pace.

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Stuart McMillan mentioned paragraph 16, which mentions people waiting for their children to be diagnosed for things such as autism. Do we have any data on how many children are on the waiting list for such a diagnosis and whether that has got worse year on year?

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

It is across the piece.

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Okay. It would be useful to have that information, because all members of the committee will have had cases where very anxious parents cannot get a diagnosis for their children, and then the children may not end up with the support that they require.

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

What do we actually mean by additional support for learning? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that it covers a wide spectrum of needs, from the very severe to the child who may just need a bit of extra help in one particular subject for a few months, which might get them to where they need to be. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

I am just reflecting on all of that. Given that the graph in exhibit 3 shows that the number of pupils receiving ASL has been going up, year on year, is there a danger that we could end up with the impression that we have a nation of youngsters who need extra help when, actually, there is a broad spectrum of need? That goes back to the point about data. Should we not be breaking that down a bit more, so that we do not end up with that probably false impression?

Public Audit Committee

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Graham Simpson

On outcomes, are you suggesting that councils should be tracking the money that has gone in and whether it has had an impact on individual children? Is that what you are looking for?