Chamber and committees

That is really interesting. You have described a system in which police are, I presume, not having to sit in accident and emergency for hours at a time.

That is interesting. All the rest of you need to work with Richmond and do what he asks, then.

I want to go back to Tracey McKigen’s answer to the previous question. When you are dealing with young people, in particular, and you are having online consultations, how do you ensure that there is nobody else in the room prodding them to say certain things?

I will try to keep the conversation going, as always, convener.

In my questions over the past couple of weeks, I have been exploring gaps in the system as it relates to the police. I am sure that this is the same for our colleagues in Wales, but the police tell us that they spend the majority of their time—up to 80 per cent—dealing with people with mental health problems rather than with crime. They are called out to people with mental health problems; that is what they are doing for up to 80 per cent of the time.

There should be no such thing as out of hours when we are talking about mental health, but there is. The services of some of the people who are in this meeting shut down at certain times, and perhaps that is part of the problem. Whole squads of police are sat in hospital accident and emergency departments with people, waiting for them to be seen.

I have heard that, in Lanarkshire, which the convener and I represent, police officers have spent entire shifts sat in hospitals with people. The police have had to introduce what I think is an informal system with NHS Lanarkshire that means that, if they have to do that, they pick up the phone and say, “Look, can you help us out and start moving people through the system?” Does anyone have a better system for working with the police?

Is anyone aware of anything similar elsewhere in Scotland?

That is fascinating. It is obvious that we have a bit of a patchwork of systems in Scotland. Some places are apparently doing very well, while others are doing less well. The committee would love to hear more details of the schemes that have been described to us. If the witnesses could send us more information, that would be good.

Have any of the people here today had a look at the model that is referred to in the report that operates in Trieste in Italy? Essentially, it is a 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week service to which people can go. There is no waiting list, so people can just turn up. One of the side benefits is that it has saved money, but it has also led to a better service for the people who need it. Have any of you had a look at that model? If so, what do you think of it? I will pick on Hannah Axon.

Will the minister take an intervention?

I thank the Labour Party for bringing the debate to the chamber.

The starting point of the debate is whether one agrees that there is a housing emergency. It appears that the Scottish Government does not think that there is. That is despite overwhelming evidence and two councils having declared such an emergency in their own area, including in the capital, which was backed by SNP councillors. The Government’s amendment is petty, it shows an Administration that is out of touch with reality and we will not support it.

The evidence is compelling. The number of homeless applications increased by 9 per cent in 2022-23. Some 16,200 children have been assessed for, or are threatened with, homelessness. More than 6,000 families have been stuck in temporary accommodation for more than a year. In most council areas, the longest amount of time a child has been stuck in temporary accommodation exceeds a year.

Also, of course, the City of Edinburgh Council this month overwhelmingly declared a housing emergency in the capital; it was the second council to do so, after Argyll and Bute. The City of Edinburgh Council’s housing convener said:

“By declaring a housing emergency, we hope to draw widescale attention to an issue that demands urgent and united action. Every single person deserves a warm, safe, and affordable place to call home and we can address this, if we act now.”

Shelter Scotland director Alison Watson said of that declaration:

“Scotland is facing a housing emergency, which is at its most acute in the capital.”

That in itself should be enough for anyone to back the Labour motion. It is not enough for the Government, though.

We need an all-tenures solution to the housing crisis and the housing emergency, which the Government denies.

Shelter laid out the statistics in stark terms. A record 9,500 children are trapped in temporary accommodation; that is up 130 per cent since 2014. Forty-five children are becoming homeless every day. A household is becoming homeless every 16 minutes. There is a 10 per cent increase in households becoming homeless compared with last year.

Homelessness is at its worst when we have people sleeping rough on the streets, and that is on the rise again. It is at its worst when people are having to use night shelters. We must commit to ending both.

During the previous parliamentary session, I was on the Local Government and Communities Committee, which carried out an inquiry into homelessness. In October 2017, we visited Finland to look at that country’s housing first model. There, they had virtually eliminated rough sleeping. We recommended that the Scottish Government adopt the same approach. For a time, it looked as though the Government was on board, but now we seem to be slipping backwards.

No one should have to sleep rough and no one should have to use a night shelter, but they do. That is what makes it an emergency. It is disappointing that the Government does not see it that way. It has its head in the sand. We cannot begin to tackle a problem unless we first acknowledge the scale of it. We only have to listen to people such as the Edinburgh students I met this morning, who described the emergency for them in this city.

One of the big issues for many years has been our very low rates of house building. The Government amendment fails to recognise the need for more homes of all tenures or to acknowledge that the delivery of private housing is also pivotal to unlocking affordable housing delivery.

You did not take my intervention, Mr McLennan, so I will not take yours.