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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 January 2026
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Displaying 3346 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

I did not think that you would tell me, but I had to ask. I want to pursue the point, however, because it is a really serious issue. If those four colleges do not get the extra money that they need, are they at risk of closing?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

Thanks very much, convener. I will ask about that report but, initially, I have a question for Karen Watt to help me to understand the Funding Council’s role in respect of individual colleges. How involved are you at that level? Do you, for example, attend board meetings?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

That is good. Some good has come of that session, so I am glad that you watched it.

The report that you referred to, which has just come out, made for an interesting read. It is gloomy reading, to be frank. In it, you say:

“The financial position of”

Scotland’s

“colleges is deteriorating.”

You have said that already. You also say that their position is—this is an interesting phrase—“extremely fluid”. What did you mean by that?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

I looked at the table that you refer to, which seems to list every college in Scotland. It demonstrates that, sometimes, colleges can make forecasts that do not quite turn out to be accurate at the end of the day. The committee members can look at the report for themselves, but I have had the benefit of seeing it. It is gloomy. On the financial health of the sector, it says:

“Colleges ... operate in an extremely tight fiscal environment”.

It also says:

“The sector is forecasting an … operating deficit”

and that

“The financial position of colleges is deteriorating.”

In the next section, the report goes on to outline the risks to colleges’ financial health. Staff costs are one of those, and that has come out in evidence as a big risk. There is a whole list of risks, so I will not go through them, but the forecast is pretty dire, is it not?

Maybe that is a question for Mr Rennick rather than Karen Watt.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

One section of the report, which we have referred to already, is on staffing. The report says that there is an expected reduction of around 2,300 full-time equivalent staff in the college sector, which is one in five staff. How will colleges be able to continue with that reduced level of staffing?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

You are saying that four colleges have significant issues. I do not want to put words in your mouth but, to summarise, the Government might have to bail them out through the SFC.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

Okay. I want to ask quickly about arm’s-length foundations. Indeed, this point is mentioned in the recent report. It is really a question for you again, Karen Watt. In a previous evidence session, I mentioned the fact that we saw quite a large transfer of money to the arm’s-length foundation in South Lanarkshire in 2022. It was half a million pounds; it was extremely unusual. I do not really want to ask about that particular college, but what can those funds be used for and what can they not be used for?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

It is short. We have heard in previous evidence that the problem is the timescales of budgets. The Scottish Government budget runs on the normal financial year, but colleges are funded for the academic year. Is that something that you have looked at, Mr Rennick?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

That was useful. If an individual college came to you and said, “We’ve got some problems here”, you would not so much step in—that is probably the wrong phrase—as help out.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Graham Simpson

So, those meetings will be put in place.