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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 May 2025
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Displaying 1865 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

Good morning, Auditor General. This has been a bit of a sorry saga, to put it mildly. I do not want to go over the evidence that you gave last year, so I will not do that. Instead, I will concentrate on what is in your current report. As you said, the upshot is that the chair has gone and two highly respected public servants—the former principal and the interim clerk to the board—have lost their livelihoods. That is where we are at, and £800,000 has been spent so far. Where has the £800,000 come from?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

That was not my question; my question was that the £800,000 that has been spent must have come from somewhere and—given the risk to the sector, at the moment—I would like to know which budget it has come from.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

We have mentioned the former principal, who has been sacked, and the former interim clerk to the board has also gone. My understanding is that both will go to employment tribunals. We do not want to get into that, but there is a risk of extra costs to the college from that process—particularly if the individuals are successful. Do you know whether the college has budgeted for that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

Absolutely, convener. I do not want to get into the rights and wrongs of anyone’s case; it is merely a financial risk that people need to be aware of, and that is why I raised it. We do not know where that situation will end up.

It emerged last week that South Lanarkshire Council and its leisure trust were involved in a case that went to tribunal and has cost them £800,000—the same figure as in South Lanarkshire College’s case—at the end of it, so such things can be enormously costly to public bodies.

There was a view in the sector, and when I say the sector I mean college principals, that that particular principal was—

In fact, let me rephrase that, because we do not want to get into the individual case. There was a concern from the college principals group that principals can be removed too easily if there is a falling-out with the board. If that happens, we can start to accrue the sort of costs that have been seen. Are you aware of that, Auditor General?

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

Cabinet secretary, earlier you said that there was no issue with the numbers. I would like to ask you about those. What is your estimate of what it will cost to complete hull 802, as opposed to what has been spent now?

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

Yes.

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

Another £70 million. Okay. I think that that will help the committee to assess value for money. We can probably figure out that it would be cheaper than £70 million to buy a new ferry elsewhere.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

You have not identified where the money has come from or from which budget it has come, but it would be fair to say that, if the college had not spent that £800,000, it could have been spent on learning.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

The group wrote to the former education secretary about that, but you have not seen that.

Let us talk about this case. Do you think that, if procedures had been put in place, we could have avoided getting to the position that we are—

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Graham Simpson

Is that £70 million extra?