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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 December 2025
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Displaying 1446 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Grampian”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

I will start off with some questions about the NHS Scotland’s support and intervention framework escalation. We know that NHS Grampian was escalated to stage 3 in January 2025 and then, just four months later, it was escalated to stage 4. Was that too late? That seems like a rapid escalation. What went wrong that required it to move so quickly from stage 3 to stage 4?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Grampian”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

So this was about more than just money.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Grampian”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

You mentioned leadership. I will ask similar questions to those that I asked about leadership at NHS Ayrshire and Arran. I think that KPMG suggested that, in some meetings, the board provided a good level of challenge to the leadership team. However, given the answer that we received in relation to NHS Ayrshire and Arran, I am guessing that board members sometimes did not have all the information that they needed in order to provide effective challenge. Is that problem common to both boards, or is the situation at NHS Grampian entirely different?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Grampian”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

The KPMG report suggested that meetings, especially of board sub-groups, were still being undertaken online. Do you have any thoughts on whether, in that context, online meetings are as effective as in-person meetings?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Grampian”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

I just feel that, if things are escalating, maybe it is time for people to get in a room together and spend a bit of time—

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

Is the board looking at this for the longer term, trying to get things back on a more sustainable footing in order to pass it on to the next chief executive?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

I want to ask some questions about leadership and governance, but first I will pick up from Colin Beattie’s question about the acute director role. He was focusing on what has happened since that position was filled in August 2024, but we have a remaining question. That critical position in the leadership team was empty for nearly a year between November 2023 and August 2024, when it was finally filled. Why was such a critical role left for so long? Do you have an understanding of why that was?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

Which gives the transparency.

My other question is about the wider board and the chair. This has been going on for a long time. I can remember that, when I was a junior health minister, this was one of the boards that we talked about often, and we are still in the same position. Do the wider board and the chair have the skills that they require to challenge leadership? It is difficult if the leadership team is not full, but do they have the skills, or is there something more that the Government needs to do to make sure that they are providing the challenge that Government ministers have to rely on them for?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Ayrshire and Arran”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

There is an opportunity here for the board to grasp what you have been saying about increased transparency and drive that home, so that it can get the change and the information that it needs to do the job that it is expected to do. I guess that that is what audit should be about.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2024/25 audit of NHS Grampian”

Meeting date: 26 November 2025

Joe FitzPatrick

Will you say a bit more about the difference between stage 3 and stage 4 and what that meant for NHS Grampian in dealing with the challenge?