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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 7 November 2026
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Displaying 194 contributions

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Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

You will need to be incredibly brief, because you will squeeze out colleagues otherwise.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

We really are beyond time. If either Mr Bannerman or Mr Fagan has got an absolutely key short question that they must ask, they absolutely can, but if it is any more than a short answer, the witnesses will have to follow up in writing. Let us go to Mr Bannerman first, then we will go to Mr Fagan.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

I am afraid that he has had to depart, which is disappointing, but it saves us time.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

That is very helpful. Jayne Jones—I have a very specific question for you. It would be remiss of me not to ask it. The Scottish Food Commission is part of the public service reform, as was alluded to earlier, and the organisation will now sit within Food Standards Scotland, but it is still quite a young organisation. Do you think that some of the potential success in relation to that move will be not so much in relation to a contraction in the number of staff but perhaps in relation to how, as it develops as an organisation, it can do things in a much more efficient manner, if that makes sense?

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

I welcome our second panel of witnesses. Liam Davenport is industrial officer at the Public and Commercial Services Union, Carmen Martinez is policy and engagement lead at the Scottish Women’s Budget Group, and Dr Chris Williams is vice-chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners Scotland.

Thank you for attending. I apologise that you had a bit of a wait to take your places at the table. I offer you the opportunity to make some brief opening statements if you wish.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

Thank you to all the witnesses for putting their initial comments on the record. We will move to questioning from committee members.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

Lorna, you wanted to explore some matters around prevention as well. Is there anything else that you wish to add or explore?

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

I thank all four witnesses for their short opening statements, which were very helpful. I will open up the discussion with a general question, and my colleagues will then ask much more detailed questions.

I was interested to read the Wise Group’s comment, in its submission, about “institutional friction” in relation to achieving public service reform. Sean Duffy, the Wise Group’s chief executive officer, went further—I am sure that what he said was meant to provoke thought and discussion, so I will read out his quote:

“much of Scotland’s public sector architecture now appears better designed to protect itself than to solve the problems it exists to address”.

Victoria Carson, you are here not to speak for Sean Duffy but to give the thoughts of the Wise Group. Could you elaborate on what you have said on the matter? What are the institutional or cultural barriers to effective public service reform?

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

Never get me to run your diary, witnesses, because we are now going to move slightly beyond 12.40. My apologies, Max, for leaving you to the tail end of the session, but you should ask your question.

Public Service Reform Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 17 September 2026

Bob Doris

That is helpful. Colleagues will come in on preventative spend, but I note that that could be described as a positive example of preventative spend.

We will move on to budget scrutiny. When budgets are published, there appears to be a disconnect between the allocations that are announced and how they will flow through to grass-roots organisations and communities to deliver preventative spending. When the Wise Group looks at a budget that has been published by the Scottish Government, how long does it take you to break down the various budget silos to work out where that money will go on the ground for preventative spending in the areas of work in which you are involved?

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