Chamber and committees

I will not follow up on that, Dr Winskel, but it is very helpful. If the Government can do that for one sector and provide the range and give a bit of an explanation, why not across the board? Thank you.

Yes, thank you, convener. My question is quite similar to Douglas’s. We were just considering the short and long-term cost implications of a rapid switch to electric vehicles. That concerns individuals, businesses and the taxpayer, but I will focus on individuals. If I have this right, by 2035, manufacturers will, I hope, no longer be making combustion-engine cars and the switch will be complete. Effectively, during the next 10 years, consumers will be making financial decisions on buying a new car or a second-hand car. They might be tied into one more finance deal—for example, if they are not buying a car outright, and most folk do not. After that, they have to make the switch and that is that. Not everyone has to do it quickly, but the window for doing so is closing.

What are the cost implications of that for individuals? There is no point in saying, “Oh—it’s costly. That’s an issue”. I am thinking more about how Government works in partnership with the financial sector to make it affordable, given that—let us be honest about it, convener—the sector will continue to make a fortune out of financing and refinancing cars, as it currently does.

I will give an illustrative example. I am a non-driver. The person who gives me a lift drives an MG. It is a family car and is not electric. MG’s cheapest electric model starts from £19,000 and hurtles up to around £55,000, depending on the car that you get. A second-hand equivalent is around £8,000 or £9,000, which is a dramatic contrast.

How do we quantify the short and long-term costs to the individual of making that switch? More important, how do we get partners in the financial sector and others to bring in products that do not price gouge consumers who have to switch and to get them to work in partnership to give a good deal to those who have no choice but to make a switch by 2035?

Sorry for the length of the question. That captures everything that I want to get more information on, so I might not need to come back in, depending on the answers. Who would like to pick up the cudgels of that initially?

Andy Poole was kind enough to wave, convener.

That is helpful. I know that Jess Pepper and Dr Winskel want to come in here. We will have one more reply after this. If there is a consistency of answers, we can move on, given the convener’s appeal. Dr Winskel, I will take you after Jess Pepper.

I would make the assumption that Government assumptions fall within a range. The Government cannot land something to the exact pounds and pence of cost or the carbon reduction threshold—there will be a range. What is the range that the Scottish Government is working to? Is it the most optimistic part, the most pessimistic part, or has it laid it bang in the middle? What has informed the Scottish Government’s view? Lloyd Austin seems to be suggesting that there is a void at the moment in understanding that.

Can I check some costs with you? Say you are driving an EV car with an EVED of 3p a mile. In future, that could become 6p or 9p a mile. Would you like there to be certainty and a clear line of sight that costs will be constrained or capped in some way?

Does anyone else want to come in? I am conscious that my notes refer to the role that the financial industry has to play. I am not against industries making money, but it would be good if they do so in partnership for the public benefit. Are there any comments on how we can work with the financial sector? Its fingerprints are all over the new car market and the used car market, as anyone will know who goes to purchase a car.

I see that Professor Anable wants to come in.

That is helpful. Assumptions are the best predictability and the best estimates of data at any given time. They should change—of course they should.

Our next item of business is a decision on whether to take items 4, 6 and 7 in private. I am just checking that I have not missed out item 5 by mistake.

I am advised that we previously agreed to take item 5 in private. Does the committee agree to take items 4, 6 and 7 in private as well?

Members indicated agreement.

Agenda item 3 is an evidence session on the social security independent advocacy service, which is due to be delivered by Advice Direct Scotland from January 2026. I welcome Andrew Bartlett, the chief executive officer of Advice Direct Scotland, who is joining us online.

Thank you for joining us, Andrew. Before we move to questions, I put on the record that various members of the committee have welcomed your proactive approach to engaging with members ahead of today’s meeting. Some of us had an opportunity to meet you, but it is, of course, also important to have a public session to put on the record some of the matters that we think are relevant in relation to our scrutiny work.

I have a supplementary question on the referral process. If an advocacy worker is in someone’s house carrying out the contracted work on adult disability payments, say, and they discover that there is a universal credit issue or another issue, what happens?